Sassafras54 is offline Sassafras54 — Advice Official Moderator Post #1  December 5,2009, 9:36am
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So if I am stuck in an old pattern, want to change: I can introspect, seek advice, read etc etc ... and yet I'm still stuck.

What if I just change something? Anything? Doesn't have to be thought out or related in any obvious way to my pattern. Can that help?

Example: I have a cat named Wayne who's had just intractable inflammatory bowel disease for a year. We've tried all the usual treatments, gotten input from a couple specialist vets, tried the outside chances. He gets a little better briefly then we're back to where we started.

Yesterday I realized that every time we changed something: added a drug, stopped a drug, changed a food, went back to an old drug, whatever -- he got better briefly.

Theory: Any change will do, if you want to break up a pattern. The change doesn't have to have any relation to the pattern you want to change.

Agree, disagree, and explain your position please!
 
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WeDesignOurLives is offline WeDesignOurLives Post #2  December 5,2009, 12:11pm
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Sassafras54 wrote :
So if I am stuck in an old pattern, want to change: I can introspect, seek advice, read etc etc ... and yet I'm still stuck.

What if I just change something? Anything? Doesn't have to be thought out or related in any obvious way to my pattern. Can that help?

Example: I have a cat named Wayne who's had just intractable inflammatory bowel disease for a year. We've tried all the usual treatments, gotten input from a couple specialist vets, tried the outside chances. He gets a little better briefly then we're back to where we started.

Yesterday I realized that every time we changed something: added a drug, stopped a drug, changed a food, went back to an old drug, whatever -- he got better briefly.

Theory: Any change will do, if you want to break up a pattern. The change doesn't have to have any relation to the pattern you want to change.

Agree, disagree, and explain your position please!
My observation is that WHERE is the is largest initial hurdle and way to change the pattern is to commit to the PLACE to change the pattern so that it becomes a can't miss kinda situation.

If I want to work out an hour a day the solution is to not start working out an hour a day every other day, or even two, but instead to get yourself to the place where you would work out and stay there for 15 minutes (working out) or so every day... so that getting to the gym or wherever becomes the routine. Then once that is there it's just plain easier to ramp up that time you're working out because you've removed the escape.

Another trap is invalidating desire through poor rationalization... if I really wanted it I would've done it! Therefore I either don't really want it or I'm flawed because I can't get it!

Wrong.

You don't want it because you're in the habit of where you are so anything, any change, is going to meet resistance... why?... human nature... to exist is to continue to exist which means to minimize threat of that existence which means creating certainty which is what habits do... they give us certainty (which is good because certainty informs happiness...but which is why changing is hard).

So...back to our show... the lack of desire to change needs to be ignored. Not being motivated is a red herring. If you had a magic wand and the top thing you want is to lose weight and get in shape then that's what you want... you want to want to lose weight. That's as deep as you have to go.

Is change an agent of change?... well it can be if the #1 thing you want to change is "being more present" and getting out of the auto-thinking and habits you're in. This is also called mindfulness... just plain teaching yourself to think aloud more so you can identify your traps and be-there-in-the-moment to challenge them with healthier (smarter) thoughts.

Technically speaking no one breaks up a pattern...they replace it... time and matter can't be created or destroyed, something else is occurring where the pattern was.
Last edited by WeDesignOurLives; December 5,2009 at 12:14pm.
 
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sueyq is offline sueyq Post #3  December 5,2009, 9:26pm
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it seems to this one that if a change is a personality a mood or behavior and it is solely not medical then there can be true change. the agent of change would be only your desire and your willingness to put forth the effort of the desired change. however with the cat situation that seems to be a medical condition or environmental situation. with out any stable or long term patterns of stability. has the environment , living condition, changed any? Do you know what the cat comes in contact with each and every moment of the day? have you changes all pattern and contact the cat has in it's life and surroundings, and maybe it could be the duration of the drugs with the combination of the surroundings. are all the parties involved with the cat doing the same thing or procedure ?
 
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j0hn8andy is offline j0hn8andy Post #4  December 6,2009, 7:10am
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I'm more than likely going to betray my ignorance in Intelligent Conversation, but for me.....

I approach change from a practical perspective. I have to Focus my Energy, otherwise I'm likely to slack off. My first step is to decide where my Focus should be, and for me, that's the hardest part. It's all about those decisions.....

The few times in my life when I have made a Conscious Decision, sought a Particular Goal, and Focused my Energy, I've been Unstoppable.

Change for change sake, maybe, but I just don't see the point. Unless it's simply variety you seek.....

Your cat? The only thing I'm sure of with cats is that they prefer Routine rather than Change.

j8a
 
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Sassafras54 is offline Sassafras54 — Advice Official Moderator Post #5  December 6,2009, 7:56am
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OK, I've never done family therapy but I studied it in school, and a standard technique is to just inject a change into the family system, in an effort to shake things up.

Say the family is rigidly stuck in some bad patterns and just can't seem to behave differently. The therapist is an outside influence that can inject something into the system.

For example, week after week, every week, the family comes in and therapy just goes nowhere because the family is highly entrenched. The therapist notices that every week each person sits in the same chair they always do. So one week the therapist has them change seats, and then have them start seeing if their experience is any different, talking about it etc. Where they sit is unrelated to whatever their problems are. But just changing something they habitually do might create an avenue into what they need to do, to change.

I could take this technique and apply it to myself: just pick some random change and do it, see what happens, does the pattern get shaken?

Yes? No?
 
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jayjay is offline jayjay Post #6  December 6,2009, 9:39am
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Sassafras54 wrote :
What if I just change something? Anything? Doesn't have to be thought out or related in any obvious way to my pattern. Can that help?

Example: I have a cat named Wayne who's had just intractable inflammatory bowel disease for a year. We've tried all the usual treatments, gotten input from a couple specialist vets, tried the outside chances. He gets a little better briefly then we're back to where we started.
Actually, there are medical researchers who are beginning to consider that various drugs should be taken on schedules that are not regular. It relates to the complexity and adaptability of the nervous system. Though, it will probably take quite a while for this to make its way down to practicing physicians.

Researchers in the field of healthy aging are also recommending people learn and do new things as a way of keeping mentally and physiologically healthy as one gets older. One problem in aging is that the body and brain begin to function in a way that is too regular or consistent, which causes people to be less adaptable in things such as their movement, cardiovascular system, immune system etc.

I think this all relates to what you are talking and asking about. I think the ability to learn, to change and adapt are necessary things for health and well-being. While making a change in your life might not make an immediate improvement in one particular difficulty you are having I think in the long run this will produce a positive effect in your life. Also, my own opinion is that 'introspection' is really of almost no value.
 
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Sassafras54 is offline Sassafras54 — Advice Official Moderator Post #7  December 6,2009, 9:48am
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That's interesting JJ, about drug scheduling. With my cat, I wondered if whatever pernicious thing he has going on gets knocked off balance by a change in treatment, but then it adjusts and re-asserts itself. I've asked my vet if maybe he should be going on and off drugs, and we're going to meet next week to talk about it.

I do think introspecting has its place ... put some focused energy and time into it, maybe realize some things I just hadn't been paying attention to.

But the problem with it is that I'm doing it with the very brain/self I'm seeking to change. Introspecting often becomes obsessive ... going over and over the same stuff without getting anywhere.

I wonder if injecting a new neural connection, any new connection, can lead to changes in older neural paths. From what you say about scheduling drugs, maybe that's a similar phenomenon.
 
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Sassafras54 is offline Sassafras54 — Advice Official Moderator Post #8  December 6,2009, 9:50am
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WeDesignOurLives wrote :
Technically speaking no one breaks up a pattern...they replace it... time and matter can't be created or destroyed, something else is occurring where the pattern was.
That's interesting ... we require patterns, you mean? So if we stop one, must substitute a different one?
 
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Sassafras54 is offline Sassafras54 — Advice Official Moderator Post #9  December 6,2009, 9:52am
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sueyq wrote :
it seems to this one that if a change is a personality a mood or behavior and it is solely not medical then there can be true change. the agent of change would be only your desire and your willingness to put forth the effort of the desired change. however with the cat situation that seems to be a medical condition or environmental situation. with out any stable or long term patterns of stability. has the environment , living condition, changed any? Do you know what the cat comes in contact with each and every moment of the day? have you changes all pattern and contact the cat has in it's life and surroundings, and maybe it could be the duration of the drugs with the combination of the surroundings. are all the parties involved with the cat doing the same thing or procedure ?
That's another good point ... I don't know everything going on with my cat, and there could be some variable I'm not tracking that causes his ups and downs. I have been keeping a detailed chart on him since August, which is how I noticed that changes seemed to be followed by brief remissions. But I don't track everything in his little life!
 
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Sassafras54 is offline Sassafras54 — Advice Official Moderator Post #10  December 6,2009, 9:56am
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j0hn8andy wrote :
I'm more than likely going to betray my ignorance in Intelligent Conversation, but for me.....
hardly!

j0hn8andy wrote :
The few times in my life when I have made a Conscious Decision, sought a Particular Goal, and Focused my Energy, I've been Unstoppable.
Yeah me too ... but what about Waynie? Just can't find a solution for him by thinking, focusing, setting goals etc. If I'm stuck in a pattern and have tried, and can't find my way out ... can I just fire a random change at it?
 
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