WeDesignOurLives is offline WeDesignOurLives Post #1  November 5,2009, 5:40pm
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Here's a link to art for sale... is this art a good value? How did the artist arrive at a price?

Greg Kucera Gallery | Seattle

Should art that is owned by municipalities if it's worth tens of millions but not really much better than other similar examples worth only a fraction?

Is high art a con job? (Is high fashion? $100 a plate dinning?)
 
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Sassafras54 is offline Sassafras54 — Advice Official Moderator Post #2  November 6,2009, 2:28pm
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I assume you think the art in your link is stupid? And obscenely over priced?

To be fair, that type of art does not show well in photos, especially at a very reduced size. It looks like it's probably got a lot in common with Rothko's stuff, which in person, full-size, really does have depth.

It's a niche type of art: color field. Some artists really like to do it, some collectors really like it. It's worth whatever its collectors are willing to pay, I guess. The paintings in your link are priced around $6K. That's a pretty typical price for an established but not very well-known artist.

The artist will get maybe 50% of sale prices. So say she gets $3K for each of maybe 10 paintings sold...$30K. Subtract the costs for her to buy materials and frames, say $5K ... she gets $25K. Probably took her a year to produce this show. She's 55 years old. Took her probably 30 years to get where she is. Not much $.

I saw a piece at a gallery maybe 10 years ago, that was a large red background, with thin, freehand-painted horizontal whiteish stripes. I forget the title but it implied that the painting represented the artist's breathing while she painted it. In ... out ... in ... out. At the time it seemed slightly silly. However, it's 10 years ago and I still remember it. It clearly had something going on. At least for me.

I do think there's something sick about the prices on very high end art...those multi-hundred million dollar paintings. I also don't see the point in 15,000 sq foot houses for 2 people to live in, $48,000 engagement rings, or $200,000 cars. It's all just status, right?
 
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chawks64 is offline chawks64 Post #3  November 6,2009, 5:09pm
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Art is tricky. It's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Me? I just spent 12 bucks on a print of Rosie the Riveter on tin, so you can guess where my taste lies.

Music is the same way. My mom has a custom-made viola that cost $30,000. She swears she can tell a huge difference, and I'm sure she can, but it's not enough difference to me that I would be willing to pay it, and I've spent my entire life immersed in music. I spent $175 on a violin and it works just fine for my purposes.

As far as fashion goes, I'm a big fan of snug Levis on a man.
 
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WeDesignOurLives is offline WeDesignOurLives Post #4  November 7,2009, 6:42am
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Sassafras54 wrote :
Subtract the costs for her to buy materials and frames, say $5K ... she gets $25K. Probably took her a year to produce this show. She's 55 years old. Took her probably 30 years to get where she is. Not much $.
I contest this. There were no frames and the materials were home made paper. And when I do see art in frames those frames seem very much regular stocked frames which I think are $50 generously so that's 1% of the sale price.

"It took her a year to produce the show" is misleading... how many hours? I'm willing to say that each piece took 10 hours (which I think is generous since they all seem to be from the same kinda paper so that was done in mass.

Hours to arrange and produce the show? ... ok, I'l say 80... generous I think since you said she's established so she already knows the ropes.

It took her 30 years to get where she's at?... ok, may be very true but why does it matter? I buy a song or rent of movie because of it's quality, not because of the age of the artist.

I love these kinds of painting and I love abstract art and I hope she gets her $6000 per painting but I don't see that being justified though the time spent argument which is why I made the topic - to discuss how folks appraise objective value to subjective works.
 
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Sassafras54 is offline Sassafras54 — Advice Official Moderator Post #5  November 7,2009, 8:02am
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Well, it's just a market, like any other. You can charge what people will pay.

I think art collectors want to support artists they like, as well as have the object for their collection, so are willing to pay enough to keep the artist in business. I think collectors do consider time spent as part of deciding whether to pay the price.

A man went to an artist and said he wanted a drawing of a rooster. The artist said come back in 2 weeks. When the man came back, the artist handed him a very nice drawing of a rooster, and said "that will be $500". The man said "$500! It's just a little drawing, it couldn't have taken more than 20 minutes to make it! Where do you get off, charging $500 for 20 minutes work?" The artist took the man back to his studio, where there were 375 discarded drawings of a rooster. "I am charging $500 for 2 weeks work."

If the artist can get someone to pay $500 then that's the drawing's value. If the artist can't, then they have to get a day job.
 
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chawks64 is offline chawks64 Post #6  November 7,2009, 11:47am
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Sassafras54 wrote :
Well, it's just a market, like any other. You can charge what people will pay.

I think art collectors want to support artists they like, as well as have the object for their collection, so are willing to pay enough to keep the artist in business. I think collectors do consider time spent as part of deciding whether to pay the price.
It's the same with music. My church "sponsors" classical and jazz concerts all the time by allowing the musicians to use our facility and sound equipment for free. The cost of admission is usually a "free will offering" that goes to the musical group, so it's in effect free if you don't want to pay. But people normally do contribute, and many times they give more than a ticket would usually be priced. They do it because, even though they could listen to the concert for free, they want the music they like to continue.
 
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WeDesignOurLives is offline WeDesignOurLives Post #7  November 7,2009, 4:01pm
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Sassafras54 wrote :
A man went to an artist and said he wanted a drawing of a rooster. The artist said come back in 2 weeks. When the man came back, the artist handed him a very nice drawing of a rooster, and said "that will be $500". The man said "$500! It's just a little drawing, it couldn't have taken more than 20 minutes to make it! Where do you get off, charging $500 for 20 minutes work?" The artist took the man back to his studio, where there were 375 discarded drawings of a rooster. "I am charging $500 for 2 weeks work."

If the artist can get someone to pay $500 then that's the drawing's value. If the artist can't, then they have to get a day job.
I love that story and the man should've then said "fine... If I am paying for two weeks work then I get all the drawings." (Would the artist have similarly said "well I quoted $500 because I estimated two weeks work but since it only took 20 minutes then I can't charge you for the two weeks so give me $50.")

Of course you can get whatever you can get,,, that's fine... but when you want me to pay for the concept and not the work then I, people, should shrug because I do think there are ways to objectify the value of art based on time and complexity.
 
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Sassafras54 is offline Sassafras54 — Advice Official Moderator Post #8  November 7,2009, 10:27pm
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WeDesignOurLives wrote :
I love that story and the man should've then said "fine... If I am paying for two weeks work then I get all the drawings."
If someone would give me $500 for a drawing I'd gladly give them all my discards!

I think it was Michelangelo who burned almost all his drawings and studies because he felt that people should see his art as something that sprang fully formed into being. Consequently his few surviving drawings are worth quite a bit!
 
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WeDesignOurLives is offline WeDesignOurLives Post #9  November 7,2009, 10:30pm
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Sassafras54 wrote :
If someone would give me $500 for a drawing I'd gladly give them all my discards!

I think it was Michelangelo who burned almost all his drawings and studies because he felt that people should see his art as something that sprang fully formed into being. Consequently his few surviving drawings are worth quite a bit!
HA! Fair enough!

Michelangelo... I completely understand and it's unfortunate... even he was conscious of his public image.
 
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eviegirl is offline eviegirl Post #10  November 7,2009, 10:39pm
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The true value of a piece of art can only be arrived at by the person that created it, possesses it...or chooses to possess it for a price. It seems to me, WeDesignOurLives, that your question can be answered by your own moniker.
 
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