WeDesignOurLives is offline WeDesignOurLives Post #1  October 23,2009, 7:19pm
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Alcohol is legal but pot isn't.

Does the right to live as one wants (without harming others in the process of course) exceed the right of the gov't to protect people from themselves? (is that a right?)

Which should be legal...which not...and why of course.
 
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Sassafras54 is offline Sassafras54 — Advice Official Moderator Post #2  October 24,2009, 7:11am
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All drugs should be legal, but those that are not recreational, and you can hurt yourself with unless you have the knowledge of a doctor, need a prescription.

It should remain illegal to do certain things while under the influence: be in charge of a dependent person, drive a car, etc.

I don't think there are very many people who want to use heroin, say, who don't because it's illegal. I think existing social pressure to not use most drugs would remain.

Legalizing would mean: could tax the sale, could regulate the industry, could get cartels and terrorists out of the business, could get half the people out of prison. Plus recognize that people get to do what they want with their body and mind and soul, as long as they don't step on other peoples' rights.
 
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JustbecauseIlikeIt is offline JustbecauseIlikeIt Post #3  October 24,2009, 8:45am
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We must remember the true nature of drug addiction to answer this question. Heroin for example is highly addictive, if we made it legal more people, especially teens who physiologically have an altered since of mortality, would try it once or twice. That's all it would take for most. Once addicted the individual can not control what they will or will not do in order to obtain the drug. There is no such thing as a responsible heroin addict like there is a responsible alcohol, weed, or cigarette addict. To think they will abide by the legal rights of others is not understanding the nature of that particular drug addiction.

If heroin became legal there would be an incredible explosion of addiction amongst are young as advertisers would target them with full knowledge that they would only have to try it once or twice to become lifelong addicts to their products. They'd put it in sweet drinks, energy drinks, cigarettes, you name it. It would be the miracle product that assured life long profit for whatever product it was in. Recovering from heroin addiction is next to impossible. We'd have a lot of dead kids before things evened out at a 'tolerable' level. It's a lot easier to OD on heroin than on cigarettes.

About drugs that need medical supervision, they are for the most part only purer forms of street drugs. An opiate is an opiate. The dangers that exist are the same. So it makes no since to regulate Morphine, Vicodine, Fentanyl, etc and not regulate heroin or opium.

Weed should be legal. I'm not a pot head and would not want my children to be. Much like I would not want them to use cigarettes. It should be illegal to smoke pot and drive much like it is to drink and drive. Can't think of any other drug that should be legal??? But that doesn't mean there aren't any.
 
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Sassafras54 is offline Sassafras54 — Advice Official Moderator Post #4  October 24,2009, 10:00am
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I semi-agree with you, JustBecause, about the addiction thing. But the same can be said of alcohol, for people with a genetic predisposition towards alcohol addiction, so should alcohol be illegal? Many alcoholics will say they had their first drink at 13 or whatever and never stopped.

I think it would be ok to regulate the distribution of addictive recreational drugs. E.g., heroin can only be bought at a heroin store, you have to be over 18, etc. People under 18 are in a special protected category for many things.

Maybe that should be more like 25? Can't drink, can't vote, can't get married, can't go to war, can't buy heroin?
 
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TracyBluebird is offline TracyBluebird Post #5  October 24,2009, 4:42pm
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Sassafras54 wrote :
knowledge of a doctor
Based on my experiences in the past year, that is an oxymoron statement.

The entire prescription thing is to protect us "unknowledgeable" people from hurting ourselves right?

So I have these knowledgeable guys putting me on seizure meds (took one of each type), muscle relaxers, oxycontin (did not take it), shot demerol in my head until my teeth chattered uncontrollably, while others suggested brain surgery to ablate a nerve where my face might sag like I had a stroke.

The last time I was in that doctor's office, a drug sales rep comes in and the office staff says "Where are you taking us to lunch today?"

My pain was relieved by massage, meditation and massive quantities of exercise. Oh, and I got a divorce, after which my headaches diminished greatly!

What's legal really mean anymore? Aren't these drug reps operating like what we would refer to as "pushers????"

I am essentially illegally using thyroid medicine right now, because my doctor overdosed me on it where I lost 30 pounds in a month, my heart rate went through the roof and I slept about 3 hours a day for a month. She would not change it, so I just chop it up myself. Another doctor od'ed me on blood pressure medicine not taking into account I was on thyroid medicine, I blacked out because my bp is normally 116/65...I don't take it.

Hey, these are all legal drugs, but the people "dealing" them are run by the industry, not common sense!

Mmmm, sorry for the rant...can you tell this topic sort of set me off?
 
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ANDR3W is offline ANDR3W Post #6  October 24,2009, 6:13pm
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cornucopias is offline cornucopias Post #7  October 27,2009, 1:55pm
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I'm almost sorry there aren't more anti 'drug' folks posting here, just to make it more interesting Sassafras makes sense and I'm sorry to say I know too many who have had Tracy's experience as well. My kids got heavy anti-drug propaganda in school, and I saw all too many folks who were pot smokers turned in by their grandkids, and youngsters who thought it was evil. To address a couple of points made:
I totally agree that drug reps are as much pushers as any one can be. How often does the Dr change the med to follow the latest 'fad' being marketed, and lets face it the Med system trains Dr's to be crisis managers, and interventionists, NOT to avoid illness or actually solve the cause of the problem. I know too many folks who have been made sick by the Dr's throwing various drugs at 1 symptom then another (often a side effect of the first med) etc. Preventative medicine is almost an oxymoron sadly.
THis relates to the question of addiction, I had a neighbor who's grandaughter turned him in for pot growing in the basement, double amputee who's Dr gave him unlimited supply of morphine for pain, he chose herb instead, nearly lost his house fighting the charges, that's Crazy! he said he could function on the pot but hated being a morphine addict, hmm which is better for society?
As for addictive personalities, they will find something legal or not, why is it that countries that do not have the same laws as the US don't have worse addiction problems??? Think on this, people who are happy and see a future for themselves aren't looking to self anesthetize (opiates, in any form) there is reason drugs are such a bane of youth and inner cities, and legality has nothing to do with it. If the gov spent all the money it now spends on the DEA on education (real not propaganda) building safe schools, job programs, things that helped folks get out of the ghettos, there would be a lot fewer addicts of any kind. Programs that helped folks beat their addictions and physically cocaine is much more addictive than heroin, which I have heard heroin makes folks very sick the first times they use it, a bit of a deterrent. Also legal doesn't mean ok to add to food, cocaine was the ingredient in coke that gave it it's name you know, as well as opium in "mothers little helper" Not that caffeine isn't in a ton of kids foods and few parents seem to notice the physically addictive properties of it, or be concerned.
A quote from the feds "illegal drugs are the number 1 source of income for the cartels". Now if a person could grow their own MJ then what would that do to the cartels market? Yes there are lots of other illegal drugs out there but having numerous friends who have provided rehab and treatment to addicts, the number 1 thing they heard from folks was that heroine was so cheap and pot so expensive they went for the cheap option! As in as little as 5.00 a day for heroine compared to much more for pot. No one who isn't feeling desperate is going to shoot up to escape from their pain if there are other options available. So we dump all the waste of the 'war on drugs' fight, put it into communities and healing.
I wont go into the politics at this time but suffice to say it would be telling to look at many gov persons involvement in the trafficking, one learns alot when traveling outside of the US.
When my DD was about 13 all the propaganda finally met it's end when she realized there wasn't any pusher on the street corner encouraging folks to do drugs, it was just people making their own choices. I'm very glad as a parent I focused on the real problems associated with substance abuse because when kids realize all of the "just say no" nonsense is just propaganda, why wouldn't they then try it all???
 
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THX11386 is offline THX11386 Post #8  October 27,2009, 2:28pm
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Cuban cigars.
 
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ming_on_mongo is offline ming_on_mongo Post #9  October 28,2009, 6:17pm
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THX11386 wrote :
Cuban cigars.
Hey, make it a Montecristo, and throw in some pirated oysters 'n ale, and we got us a regular, um, "orgy" of "substance abuse" there! Of course a few larcenous dark chocolate brownies afterward (preferably 'west coast') wouldn't be bad either....
 
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TracyBluebird is offline TracyBluebird Post #10  October 29,2009, 5:07pm
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cornucopias wrote :
Not that caffeine isn't in a ton of kids foods and few parents seem to notice the physically addictive properties of it, or be concerned.
And what do they do about all the chemicals and junk poured in the kids bodies, or for that matter adults? Obesity is out of control in this country, and it makes me ill to see elementary school kids who weigh more than I do.

cornucopias wrote :
When my DD was about 13 all the propaganda finally met it's end when she realized there wasn't any pusher on the street corner encouraging folks to do drugs, it was just people making their own choices. I'm very glad as a parent I focused on the real problems associated with substance abuse because when kids realize all of the "just say no" nonsense is just propaganda, why wouldn't they then try it all???
They need to talk about the real problems, because they aren't happening on the street corner, they are happening in the neighborhoods, and in nice neighborhoods.

I basically tell my kids they need to be high on life, and when they start looking around for stuff, drugs, food, alchohol or other unhealthy behaviors, they have issues they need to address.
 
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