ming_on_mongo is offline ming_on_mongo Post #1  September 6,2009, 12:34am
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Does anybody know what a Narcissist is (hint: it's always "all about them"!)? While we all need a certain amount of narcissism and self-interest to get along, at it's worst, it's a serious personality disorder that includes symptoms like chronic rages, manipulative behaviors, exploiting the weaknesses of others, the total absence of empathy or personal reponsibility, and a basic inability to bond, love or form any sort of long term intimate relationship. Yet superficially they may initially appear to be quite charming and attractive people, who may even have an uncanny ability to understand & appreciate you. But only because you're useful to them in some way, which usually has to do with feeding & reinforcing their own grandiose self-image.

Attractive people, yes? Well, some psychologists believe that as much as 20 % of the population may actually be clinical Narcissists, and that most of them are men. But there are many female Narcissists as well, and it's thought that the numbers of both are actually increasing due to modern culture.

So, do you think you might ever have been involved with one, and do you think you could spot the signs of Narcissist types in their profiles, and as you get to know them better?
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Diann1950 is offline Diann1950 Post #2  September 6,2009, 7:00am
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I would think one sign might be the insistence on the physical attributes of a potential partner. Lack of acceptance of anything less than perfect.
 
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dahlimema is offline dahlimema Post #3  September 6,2009, 10:10am
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Yes I was involved with one and no I don't think I would be able to pick it up in their profile. One Hint I should of picked up on was that when asked to do a favor (honestly) his reply was what's in it for me? I was alot younger then, now I am older, wiser and hopefully not making stupid choices.
 
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graceventually is offline graceventually Post #4  September 6,2009, 5:51pm
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This is an interesting question. They are indeed sometimes difficult to recognize, but the "not-my-fault" attitude is key, and that will often reveal itself in conversation.
 
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AlexandraCassandra is offline AlexandraCassandra Post #5  September 7,2009, 8:51am
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I was married to one... he used to tell me to be careful and not to hurt myself (like breaking my leg or arms, etc.), because he did not want damaged goods, since he married me w/o any physical problems that is the way he wanted to keep me.
 
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ming_on_mongo is offline ming_on_mongo Post #6  September 7,2009, 9:31pm
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AlexandraCassandra wrote :
I was married to one... he used to tell me to be careful and not to hurt myself (like breaking my leg or arms, etc.), because he did not want damaged goods, since he married me w/o any physical problems that is the way he wanted to keep me.
Understood. Was married to one myself for 12 years, before she was eventually diagnosed. I finally decided to leave when it became clear she was going to stay in denial and not attempt any sort of treatment, i.e. nothing was ever going to change.

My own "takeaway" from all that is:
1) to try to understand my own role and vulnerabilities in all that (NPD's are supremely talented at recognizing and preying on our weaknesses).
and
2) try to be better aware of the red flags that often indicate Narcissists. My own sense is that the older we get, actually the higher the chances that the "dating pool" is more "stacked" with 'em.... ouch!
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graceventually is offline graceventually Post #7  September 8,2009, 7:55pm
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There are a couple of other threads in the dating boards regarding coping with a partner with mental illness or personality disorders. Interesting stuff, and as you say, all too common.
I think there's a world of difference between dating/marrying a person with depression or bipolar disorder who is in treatment and on medication; and being with a person with a personality disorder who thinks everything is someone else's fault and that they need no treatment.........
 
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AlexandraCassandra is offline AlexandraCassandra Post #8  September 8,2009, 11:38pm
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graceventually wrote :
There are a couple of other threads in the dating boards regarding coping with a partner with mental illness or personality disorders. Interesting stuff, and as you say, all too common.
I think there's a world of difference between dating/marrying a person with depression or bipolar disorder who is in treatment and on medication; and being with a person with a personality disorder who thinks everything is someone else's fault and that they need no treatment.........
What type of treatment is there for a Narcissist? Is there a chemical inballance in the brain, like in a bipolar, or is it more behavioral based? Does anyone know?

So, is it possible that abusive (emotional, mental, physical, verbal) people are Narcissist?
 
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graceventually is offline graceventually Post #9  September 9,2009, 10:50am
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Interesting question. As far as I know, no chemical imbalance has been identified as predisposing one to narcissism, or narcissistic personality disorder. From what I've read, it's supposed to be possible to help people through therapy; but in practice, this almost never happens. Persons with certain kinds of personality disorders (including narcissistic) have a tendency to blame others for their condition, and consequently do not often agree to get help. Successful therapy requires a commitment to change.
 
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ming_on_mongo is offline ming_on_mongo Post #10  September 9,2009, 10:00pm
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graceventually wrote :
Interesting question. As far as I know, no chemical imbalance has been identified as predisposing one to narcissism, or narcissistic personality disorder. From what I've read, it's supposed to be possible to help people through therapy; but in practice, this almost never happens. Persons with certain kinds of personality disorders (including narcissistic) have a tendency to blame others for their condition, and consequently do not often agree to get help. Successful therapy requires a commitment to change.
Current consensus seems to be that "Narcissism" (in the clinical sense)occurs when one's sense of "self" has never quite developed properly or completely, often in the early stages of infancy, and usually due to parent(s) who may have been too self-absorbed and narcisisstic themselves to properly nurture & respond. There's even been some research that suggests this actually results in a neurological deficit in the early development of the brain. Cerainly it's well understood that empathy (located in the Pre-frontal cortex) is lacking in Narcissists, Borderlines, and Socio- or Psychopathic types.

In any case, a so-called "false self" develops to cope and compensate, but that's usually very grandiose and over-inflated, and requires constant "re-enforcement" and attention from others to maintain. This is what's called "narcissistic supply". And if you get involved with a narcissist, this inevitably becomes your "role" to provide it in some way. Some are overtly abusive, but mostly they just have very poor emotional control and can fall into "rages" easily, especially when they're frustrated or their self-esteem/"false self' feels attacked (which is pretty easy to do).

There are supposed to be several treatment modalities that claim to help them, and even without treatment, they often improve somewhat with age. Although as Grace mentions, they seldom seek help (it's always "everybody elses" fault!). There are also assorted techniques available for better coping with them, which is probably a good idea anyway, since you'll find them all over, from work, to politics, to friendships. But otherwise, my own opinion is that for all practical purposes, at least as far as intimate relationships, they're a waste of time at best. They can be just as charmimng as can be and know how to push all your "buttons" (good and bad), but in the end, any relationship is all a waste of time (or worse), since at a minimum, they're manipulative and basically incapable of bonding, or forming any sort of meaningful attachment. And even if they could, the thought of it just scares the beejeezus out of them anyway!

That aside, if we find that we seem to be chronically attracting these types, it's often a good clue that we need to do some work on ourselves as well, especially to recognize our own weaknesses and needs that are being picked up on and exploited so easily.

Certainly Narcissists are easy to "demonize" since they can do some pretty nasty behaviors, but I think it's also important to remember that they really can't help being who or what they are. Although we should still exercise caution around them anyway!

BTW, a book I really like is "Disarming the Narcissist" by Wendy T. Behary (available thru Amazon).
 
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