psychometristgirl is offline psychometristgirl Post #91  November 12,2009, 7:32am
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Just wanted to comment that there are actually different "levels" if you will, of narcissism. There is the DSM IV TR NPD that a few of you have been mentioning. But there are also those that may not meet the full diagnosis qualifications but are nevertheless very unpleasant to be around!!

I happen to think that our culture has spawned a narcissistic generation where it is not only acceptable but encouraged. As earlier posters have said, not religion, but belief in a higher power and God does seem to counteract that. Because we are such a melting pot of religions it seems we fight over religion more than we agree on it (except perhaps for Christmastime).

I do have a MA in counseling so let me offer this: at the pit of the narcissists is a profound insecurity. They actually have more in common with infants than adults. The root of it is that they never received what they needed emotionally at an earlier age (that, and the fact that it runs in families - or both). Those raised in poverty have a much higher likelihood of developing narcissism as well as very wealthy kids who received no emotional benefits (absent parents). So, even though they come across as doing no wrong and having a "God complex" where they believe they know what's better than God does - at the root of it they feel they are worthless and not at all confident. The key is that if they were confident, there would be no anger, rage or conflict when others disagree with them. That's why they "need" the validation - and become absolutely horrible when they don't get it.

The other key thing is the exploitation. Again, based on needs that were never met, they must exploit others to get what they want because they don't believe they'll get it any other way. Because they usually lack insight into their own motives, they rarely can understand the concept that one must give in order to get.

Finally, the lying is rationalized by whatever gain they get from it. Our culture cares more about how things "look" than the truth of what they are. We are obsesssed with youth and the glamour that comes with massive advertising and quick fixes. The charm that narcissists often display is reinforced because it gets them what they want (however temporarily). Narcissists thrive not on doing what is right - but what is rewarded - their needs are too great for them to be concerned about what "is right."

Although i don't recommend getting involved with a narcissist if you can help it, if you can't avoid it, try this trick: use a little zen and reverse psychology - shower them with praise the next time they act up and watch the rage subside. You may not being completely truthful about what you feel inside - but ask yourself - is it worth the fight? Since they'll never agree with your criticism (for lack of insight) might as well just quiet them down a bit. For an added bonus, praise them for something they don't do but you wish they did - and maybe they just might be motivated.










Can_I_just_be_Jo wrote :
I haven't had time to read all the posts but I am kinda confused. My ex has narcissistic personalty disorder. He wouldn't be offended by anything you say to him. He is perfect, you are flawed therefore you say these things about him. After all if you knew who he was you wouldn't say those things.

He loses his temper a lot but for crazy stuff. We didn't greet him at the door when he got home one night so most of dinner was thrown around. Oh now this one would fit what you were saying, he lost it with an old lady at bingo who criticized his bingo calling abilities.

The thing that scares me the most though is the lies. I have been told he can actually pass a lie detector test because he actually believes he doesn't do anything wrong. He assaulted our older daughter but it was plead to criminal trespassing. He now believes that is all he did. I wonder how his mind reconciles the injuries to his daughter.

Meh, rambling, it is late.
 
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Sassafras54 is offline Sassafras54 — Advice Official Moderator Post #92  November 12,2009, 7:50am
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What factors in our culture do you think have "spawned a narcissistic generation"? Do you think narcissism is more prevalent now than in the past?
 
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beaner is offline beaner Post #93  November 12,2009, 6:09pm
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Talk about not picking it up in a profile...I didn't pick it up in 8 years of marriage! I was so much in denial (because I really wanted the happily ever after) and thinking I was doing something wrong. It took me a year of counselling to see what was going on. My divorce will be final in a few days, and I am really excited. I've spent the last 6 months getting settled in my new life. I'm not quite ready to get back into dating, but I'm happy for the first time in quite a while.
 
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WeDesignOurLives is offline WeDesignOurLives Post #94  November 12,2009, 7:09pm
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Sassafras54 wrote :
What factors in our culture do you think have "spawned a narcissistic generation"? Do you think narcissism is more prevalent now than in the past?
I've said in a few threads that I think it's, at least in part, the fallout of the "ME" generation of the 60's. One trait of that movement was the abandonment of traditional religion resulting in people moving toward the selfish end of the spectrum.

I think what people call this 'second age of enlightenment' is really an age of selfishness and it's not going away soon. People will continue to want government to grow and hold gov't 'hostage' to provide more and more and more and always take the mindset of 'I deserve it... and let the other guy pay... for me it's free.' (like with healthcare).
 
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TracyBluebird is offline TracyBluebird Post #95  November 12,2009, 7:24pm
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WeDesignOurLives wrote :
I've said in a few threads that I think it's, at least in part, the fallout of the "ME" generation of the 60's. One trait of that movement was the abandonment of traditional religion resulting in people moving toward the selfish end of the spectrum.
I know I took the healthcare issue off the end here, but I think it's happening in the home. I believe ming on mongo (sp) said something about a disconnect with one or other parent, or not bonding or something. In the classroom, I see so many kids who are raised by stuff, not people. They are connected to their things and their belongings, not the physical soul who brought them into the world.
 
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ming_on_mongo is offline ming_on_mongo Post #96  November 13,2009, 7:04am
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From some current research:

"At six weeks an infant makes eye-contact with the mother thereby stimulating her ‘containing’ behavior (she meets and regulates her infant’s needs). Eye-contact enables the subsequent development of intersubjectivity. To accomplish reliable eye-contact, the infant must acquire an image of the mother’s eyes. Once acquired, this image becomes associated with containment. The acquisition of this image is therefore a crucial very-early step in psychological development. Evidence for these assertions comes from (1) analyses of patients with early narcissistic injuries, (2) the evolutionary development of the appearance of the primate eye and of its signaling function, (3) experiments on infant visual preferences, and (4) observation of nursing mothers."

The Image of the Mother's Eye: a Possible Link between Early Narcissistic Injury and Autism - Cogprints
 
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Can_I_just_be_Jo is offline Can_I_just_be_Jo Post #97  November 13,2009, 8:07am

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TracyBluebird wrote :
I know I took the healthcare issue off the end here, but I think it's happening in the home. I believe ming on mongo (sp) said something about a disconnect with one or other parent, or not bonding or something. In the classroom, I see so many kids who are raised by stuff, not people. They are connected to their things and their belongings, not the physical soul who brought them into the world.
I call it day care mentality. Today most are two income homes so junior is carted off at three months and someone is paid to raise the child. The day care teaches junior to walk and talk. Barney teaches him right from wrong. The parents no longer feel responsible for the actions of their child. School are held responsible for the childs failures later on. We will just ignore the fact that at any point the parents could have taken an active interest in their child beyond the sports fields.
 
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Sassafras54 is offline Sassafras54 — Advice Official Moderator Post #98  November 13,2009, 8:19am
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So children are learning life skills from other people rather than their parents, and this removes an important bonding opportunity, so kids aren't forming adequate emotional bonds, leading to narcissism? That makes sense.

But most people don't become highly narcissistic, even when raised in these conditions. Why would that be?
 
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ming_on_mongo is offline ming_on_mongo Post #99  November 13,2009, 8:54am
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For some reason it got lost in "mod land", but there's some research that shows the first 6-8 months is the critical time to form the right "bonding" for proper brain development, before the neurological pathways become "hardwired".
 
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Can_I_just_be_Jo is offline Can_I_just_be_Jo Post #100  November 13,2009, 9:12am

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Sassafras54 wrote :
So children are learning life skills from other people rather than their parents, and this removes an important bonding opportunity, so kids aren't forming adequate emotional bonds, leading to narcissism? That makes sense.

But most people don't become highly narcissistic, even when raised in these conditions. Why would that be?
Just speaking of my ex there are other malidies of the brain kicking around in there. Add to that his mother raising their family to believe they were better than anyone else becuase of their name you have a highly narcissistic family. I am sure there are other combinations that can cause it.
 
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