WeDesignOurLives is offline WeDesignOurLives Post #1  March 25,2009, 7:16pm
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Heard a guy on the radio read letters from Civil War soldiers to freinds and family.


With only an 8th grade education, at best, these letters were well written with better vocabulary than I typically see from the college grads of today.


(I own a company and have received a few dozen resumes in the last years...most every one was either poorly written or peppered with errors.)


So what happened. How much money needs to be spent on education to have kids graduate with honed communication skills?
 
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JMWTurnerFan is offline JMWTurnerFan Post #2  April 12,2009, 2:01am
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It's sad to see how far our standards of communication have slipped. Great point, WeDesign.


The key factor may just be that back in Civil War times, people took the time to write down their thoughts. Now, everything is digital. Even if it weren't, typing would be easy. Or writing. Things are more rushed--life moves more quickly. And we don't study communication as long or as well anymore. Huge changes have taken place within the educational system. Back then, only the elite bothered to become formally educated at all. Now, college is a prerequisite for most jobs. Thus, people who would otherwise not have formed that educated class are going to school. And keep in mind that the educated class fought the wars back then. Today, they mostly sit it out or fill only command-level positions. The military and the academy are at odds.


Anyway...just some thoughts. I share your wistfulness.


The one thing I'm sure of is that more money won't solve the problem. Not alone. And educational reform isn't like, either. The teachers' unions have too strong of a political grip on the system. Change would have to come from outside today's system to have a chance. I wouldn't hold your breath on that.
 
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angelofmerci is offline angelofmerci Post #3  April 17,2009, 3:45pm
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After talking with an Englishteacher who teaches in the public school system I have a better understanding why are schools are failing our children. When I went to school you were required to take English from the 7th grade through the 12th grade. In English class you had to understand the different parts of speech and how to use them plus correct punctuation. You had to conjugate sentences also. Somewhere down the line emphasis was dropped on spelling and conjugation therefore giving our children an incomplete education.


In regard to mathematics someone came along reinventing it. When I saw my daughter's math text book I shook my head. When I was in schoolin the 7th grade I was doing basic algebra and geometry with the idea that by my senior year I would have already taken trig and calculus. Our presentstudents are having totake remedial classes the first year in college just to be able todo the assigned work because our schools failed them.
 
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JMWTurnerFan is offline JMWTurnerFan Post #4  April 17,2009, 7:22pm
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The schools have failed. The parents have as well. The U.S. also shifted to the Dewey paradigm of education: teach kids how to think, but go easy on the hard materials.


The math taught now is 'new math', and it's bad for exactly that reason. I'm sure that's what you found in your daughter's textbook. It probably does methods of math rather than actual math. But you should try teaching least common denominators to a grade-school kid who doesn't know multiplication tables. It's an exercise in futility. Their brains can do most math, but they can't juggle all that in their head so that they actually learn how to do things. No one could.


The focus has also shifted to self-esteem. Of the 17 most industrialized nations, U.S. students have the highest self-esteem. They also have the worst math & science scores. The idea that high self-esteem promotes learning is a fallacy.


OK...I'll step away from this soapbox while I still can...
 
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1Horselady is offline 1Horselady Post #5  April 17,2009, 10:48pm
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You ought to see them try to count change if their computer cash registers are down at Krogers. They can't do it. Suzie
 
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JMWTurnerFan is offline JMWTurnerFan Post #6  April 18,2009, 1:56pm
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suzannebackowski,583322 wrote :

You ought to see them try to count change if their computer cash registers are down at Krogers. They can't do it. Suzie
Oh, I'm sure. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCJ3Oz5JVKs
 
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WeDesignOurLives is offline WeDesignOurLives Post #7  April 18,2009, 3:15pm
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JMWTurnerFan,574551 wrote :

Now, everything is digital. Even if it weren't, typing would be easy. Or writing. Things are more rushed--life moves more quickly. And we don't study communication as long or as well anymore.


Anyway...just some thoughts. I share your wistfulness.


The one thing I'm sure of is that more money won't solve the problem.


The teachers' unions have too strong of a political grip on the system.
I think the digital point dovetails into another point which is simply that life becomes more stressful the more taxes go up (which is really about 'social progress')...


I mean it's like 1984 (the book), more gov't, less personal freedom, more stress, and even less words!, the breakdown of language (and courtesy), and even humility (I RARELY receive a resume that's not chock full of errors...and when I bring it to their attention they actually get hostile with me!... "I didn't give you my resume to grade it!" reactions like that).


"Now, college is a prerequisite for most jobs."


(And I think college is largely the equiv education of what High School was 50 years ago. Fair claim?)


"The one thing I'm sure of is that more money won't solve the problem."


Oh, so so so right... haven't we spent enough? There's no amount of money that can be spent to correct a personal choice! (the choice to care about one owns education...just look at the library system... withered!)


"The teachers' unions have too strong of a political grip on the system."


Very bad.
 
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WeDesignOurLives is offline WeDesignOurLives Post #8  April 18,2009, 3:17pm
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The focus has also shifted to self-esteem. Of the 17 most industrialized nations, U.S. students have the highest self-esteem. They also have the worst math & science scores. The idea that high self-esteem promotes learning is a fallacy.


[/quote]


I want to know how their version of self-esteem is different than arrogance/narcicism.
 
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1Horselady is offline 1Horselady Post #9  April 18,2009, 10:42pm
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JMWTurnerFan,584090 wrote :

suzannebackowski,583322 wrote :


You ought to see them try to count change if their computer cash registers are down at Krogers. They can't do it. Suzie


Oh, I'm sure. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCJ3Oz5JVKs
Mine wasn't as complicated as this one( how did it turn out?), merely counting $.24 from $ 10.00, but I know how that guy MUST have felt. I'm sure grateful I learned how to count change in a concession stand in my youth!Suzie
 
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BellaDonna25 is offline BellaDonna25 Post #10  April 19,2009, 1:42pm
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WeDesignOurLives, wrote :

Heard a guy on the radio read letters from Civil War soldiers to freinds and family.


With only an 8th grade education, at best, these letters were well written with better vocabulary than I typically see from the college grads of today.


(I own a company and have received a few dozen resumes in the last years...most every one was either poorly written or peppered with errors.)


So what happened. How much money needs to be spent on education to have kids graduate with honed communication skills?

First of all, you're talking about one person. The majority of people back then were not that well educated. Just because Benjamin Franklin wrote the Silence Dogood letters at age 16 does not mean that the average person could even read them.


As an education major, believe me I know about the problems in our education system. A lot of the problems exist in inner city schools and the fact that those children are being cheated out of a decent education because of a lack of funding. But even kids in suburban school districts are getting screwed because of crappy teachers with so much tenure they couldn't get fired if they wanted, and ignorant parents who don't emphasize to their kids the importance of education. Then there's the fact that the cost of college has greatly increased throughout the years, so the not-so-motivated teens don't even consider college an option.


The statement about today's college education being equal to the high school level 50 years ago is not true. I love my grandparents, but the ones who completed high school are not the most intelligent people in the world. Then the ones who didn't...well, their mathematical skills never extended past PEMDAS (if that) and I'm not sure they even know what the periodic table is.


There's also the fact that back in the day (the Baby Boomers generation and prior to), you didn't need as much education as you do now. People could get away with getting great jobs with, and sometimes without, a high school diploma. Today, people need to get at least an associate's degree or they're going to be struggling their whole life.
 
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