DennisWisconsin is offline DennisWisconsin Post #1  June 20,2010, 12:24pm
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I was flying back from Pittsburgh and got involved in a conversation with someone who was very fearful of just about everything around her. She was a professional woman mid to late 50’s. Her list of fears and concerns were quite… I don’t really know the word for it. I’ll let you decide for yourself.
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  • Businesses of a certain size that except federal government contracts are required to hire a certain number of minorities and ex-offenders.
I just watched a program in which they followed the path that refuges from Somalia took on their journey to America. If we can teach illiterate Somalians how to count and survive in America, why can’t we do the same for our own citizens if they are willing to learn?
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Ex-offenders go to school while in prison and often learn trades. Should they not have a chance? So I asked her, should we just kill them and end everyone’s misery? Really, what’s the answer? If they have no hope they will most certainly go back to crime.


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  • I haven’t confirmed it but according to her, the federal government is spending money to build mosques. When pressed she said they were prayer areas in airports for cabbies, travelers, and etc.
The federal government does spend money on airports… but I’ve also seen Christian prayer areas in airports.
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She went on and on but I sensed a real fear from her that she was really upset and afraid. That just doesn’t seem to be the way to live life. All I can say is stay away from conspiracy books… they just want to sell books and the more ludicrous their claims, the more books they sell.
 
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DashMN is offline DashMN Post #2  June 20,2010, 1:26pm
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Fear and religion, they always seem to go hand in hand don't they?

I, for one, don't believe in coincidence.

I would love to see a study done involving the correlation between fear-based thinking and religious beliefs. I suspect the correlation would be significant. Not that it would actually convince any religious people of anything.

I have a good friend who is a devout Catholic. He used to forward articles to me from the various conservative websites that he subscribes to. Each and every one of them engaged in some form of fearmongering and selective misinformation, which I happily pointed out to him. Not surprisingly, he forwards fewer of those articles to me than he used to. And the fact is, he's less "fearful" than many fundamentalists are. If I had any fundamentalist friends, I doubt the friendship would survive.
 
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DennisWisconsin is offline DennisWisconsin Post #3  June 20,2010, 2:22pm
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DashMN wrote :
Fear and religion, they always seem to go hand in hand don't they?

I, for one, don't believe in coincidence.

I would love to see a study done involving the correlation between fear-based thinking and religious beliefs. I suspect the correlation would be significant. Not that it would actually convince any religious people of anything.

I have a good friend who is a devout Catholic. He used to forward articles to me from the various conservative websites that he subscribes to. Each and every one of them engaged in some form of fearmongering and selective misinformation, which I happily pointed out to him. Not surprisingly, he forwards fewer of those articles to me than he used to. And the fact is, he's less "fearful" than many fundamentalists are. If I had any fundamentalist friends, I doubt the friendship would survive.
If you don't believe, you will roast for all time... your neighbors who don't believe will absolutely roast and you don't want to be with them on the final day... It makes me wonder how many look around and see non-christians as enemies. That does seem just a little fearful, not to mention coercive to me.

When I saw the writing on the wall with this woman I pretty much stopped talking and just started nodding, occassionally throwing out an "I don't believe that."

It seems like many Christians are determined to expand the 'crusade'. She was insistant that Moslems were trying to take over the country.

This country's citizens are black, white, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, straight, gay, married, unmarried, and everything in between. That is just a plain fact. Over the years there was always someone to blame for the nations problems. Every new minority has suffered being the fist to immigrate here, muslim people are just the latest it seems.
Last edited by DennisWisconsin; June 20,2010 at 2:26pm.
 
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DashMN is offline DashMN Post #4  June 20,2010, 5:28pm
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DennisWisconsin wrote :
She was insistant that Moslems were trying to take over the country.
Well, yeah, haven't you heard? They've already managed to have a closet Muslim elected to the presidency. (yes, that was sarcasm)

We shouldn't trust him because he took his spiritual guidance from that Jeremiah Wright fellow (a Christian minister). Oh yeah, and he's secretly a Muslim. C'mon people, which is it?
 
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DennisWisconsin is offline DennisWisconsin Post #5  June 20,2010, 5:37pm
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DashMN wrote :
Well, yeah, haven't you heard? They've already managed to have a closet Muslim elected to the presidency. (yes, that was sarcasm)

We shouldn't trust him because he took his spiritual guidance from that Jeremiah Wright fellow (a Christian minister). Oh yeah, and he's secretly a Muslim. C'mon people, which is it?
Which is it? Racism and ignorance come to mind... however, sometimes people say things like that out of plain ole greed and selfishness... they want a president that will keep them rich at the top of their individual 'heaps'.

Reagan and Bush come to mind. I actually voted for Reagan twice... I believed in trickle down economics back then. History now shows that trickle down economics created a huge divide between the rich and everyone else in this country.
Last edited by DennisWisconsin; June 20,2010 at 5:43pm.
 
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DashMN is offline DashMN Post #6  June 20,2010, 10:12pm
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DennisWisconsin wrote :
Which is it? Racism and ignorance come to mind...
And once again, fear comes to mind. For some people, there's just something frightening about a black president. I've heard everything from closet Muslim, to white people being enslaved, to him being the anti-christ. I figure it comes from the same basic crowd that resisted desegregation, or the next generation thereof. That we elected a black president speaks volumes about how far we've come. That baseless accusations like the above are being made, speaks volumes about how far we have to go.
 
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Spider is offline Spider Post #7  June 21,2010, 5:20am
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The fear of change is deep seated. Add to that the (in many cases) residual, often quite subconscious racism of seeing the first black President and the current economic crisis AND the international situations - a lot of people are just plain scared. They'll look for any reason for their uncertainty, and any scapegoat - because they want there to be reasons, and gobdarnit there has to be someone to blame! So they're perfect patsies for any fearmonger that comes around.

(and yeah, I know that quite a bit of the racism is not unconscious, just unadmitted. But I'm talking here about the folks who really are well-intentioned but confused and frightened.)
 
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DashMN is offline DashMN Post #8  June 21,2010, 6:06am
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Spider wrote :
The fear of change is deep seated. Add to that the (in many cases) residual, often quite subconscious racism of seeing the first black President and the current economic crisis AND the international situations - a lot of people are just plain scared. They'll look for any reason for their uncertainty, and any scapegoat - because they want there to be reasons, and gobdarnit there has to be someone to blame! So they're perfect patsies for any fearmonger that comes around.

(and yeah, I know that quite a bit of the racism is not unconscious, just unadmitted. But I'm talking here about the folks who really are well-intentioned but confused and frightened.)
Well said. I agree whole-heartedly. To my view, fear of change is the true driving force behind conservatism. I've long believed that Conservatives see some "golden age" in the past that they're trying to get back to, while liberals see a "golden age" in the future that they're trying to move towards. And that the liberals have always had to drag the conservatives kicking and screaming into progress. Here's something I wrote in a recent email to my religious friend....

I'm struggling to think of an issue where conservatives are/were the driving force behind change, and I mean specifically change that was new, as opposed to changing back to the old way of doing things. Gay marriage, abortion, gun rights, un-regulated capitalism, health care, welfare, energy sources, minority rights, labor unions. I'm sure I'm missing plenty of things there, but for the most part, the Republican position on those issues is not all that different from how people viewed the world 100-150 years ago. I think Sarah Palin's recent comments that we need to get back to the founding fathers and back to the ten commandments speaks volumes about the conservative position. Not that I'm opposed to honoring the intentions of our founding fathers, though she and I would differ on how to interpret their intentions. But I think the choice of words, "get back to...." kind of says it all.

My friend, who is at least a little more open-minded than many conservatives, sent me a quote from G.K. Chesterton that was similar, "The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected."
Last edited by DashMN; June 21,2010 at 6:08am. Reason: Typo
 
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Diann1950 is online now Diann1950 Post #9  June 21,2010, 8:32am
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I think it may even go a little further, for so long the "Progressives, Liberals, or whatever term you use have ignored the ranting and raving of the Conservatives. We allowed them to take ownership of patriotism, the flag, and far too many churches while blissfully thinking they would wake up some day. Now that a few are taking them on they are calling foul. Remember the Nazis, if you tell a lie long enough, and loud enough the lie will become the truth.
 
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DennisWisconsin is offline DennisWisconsin Post #10  June 21,2010, 1:40pm
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Diann1950 wrote :
I think it may even go a little further, for so long the "Progressives, Liberals, or whatever term you use have ignored the ranting and raving of the Conservatives. We allowed them to take ownership of patriotism, the flag, and far too many churches while blissfully thinking they would wake up some day. Now that a few are taking them on they are calling foul. Remember the Nazis, if you tell a lie long enough, and loud enough the lie will become the truth.
The lie will never become the truth but many people will not see the difference... and that is what scares me about religious people and belief in general.
 
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