WeDesignOurLives is offline WeDesignOurLives Post #1  November 4,2009, 4:12pm
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What would it take for god to convince you god exists? (I answered this in another thread but I was just curious as to what other perhaps fun and interesting criteria people would accept.)

If everyone with cancer woke up tomorrow and it was gone would that be proof? How about no more tsumamis. How about Will Ferrel or Ben Afflek winning the Oscar for best actor?
 
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DennisWisconsin is offline DennisWisconsin Post #2  November 4,2009, 9:53pm
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He would have to present himself to me and communicate with me...

Check out this logic:

The universe is everywhere at once (omnipresent.) God (by some people's definition) is everywhere at once.

The universe is all powerful since everything that exists must originate from the universe. God (by some people's definition) is all powerful.

We are made from the universe and since we are of the universe one could say that we are the eyes and ears of the universe. If the universe is God, we are God.

That logic my friends isn't anymore twisted than anyone else can think of, including the Christian church... Which takes us to the final thought:

In the end it simply doesn't matter... and that my friends is why religion was invented... to keep people from coming to the realization that this life here simply doesn't matter.
 
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WeDesignOurLives is offline WeDesignOurLives Post #3  November 5,2009, 5:22am
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DennisWisconsin wrote :
He would have to present himself to me and communicate with me...
Great...how would you know it's him...

DennisWisconsin wrote :
That logic my friends isn't anymore twisted than anyone else can think of, including the Christian church... Which takes us to the final thought:

In the end it simply doesn't matter... and that my friends is why religion was invented... to keep people from coming to the realization that this life here simply doesn't matter.
Right...it's not more twisted than anyone else I can think of either.

Life here completely matters because we are conscious. To say life doesn't matter because it's ends is absurd because why should meaning have anything to do with perpetuity.
 
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Sassafras54 is offline Sassafras54 — Advice Official Moderator Post #4  November 5,2009, 8:21am
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WeDesignOurLives wrote :
What would it take for god to convince you god exists?
If I realize I have died, and yet I'm there to realize it ... then I will concede there is God. Or perhaps I will wonder if my concept of "being alive" was flawed?
 
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DennisWisconsin is offline DennisWisconsin Post #5  November 5,2009, 8:26am
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WeDesignOurLives wrote :
Great...how would you know it's him...



Right...it's not more twisted than anyone else I can think of either.

Life here completely matters because we are conscious. To say life doesn't matter because it's ends is absurd because why should meaning have anything to do with perpetuity.
It may have meaning to you...

I would have to see God's pass port and driver's license.
 
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awol71 is offline awol71 Post #6  November 5,2009, 2:45pm
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DennisWisconsin wrote :
In the end it simply doesn't matter... and that my friends is why religion was invented... to keep people from coming to the realization that this life here simply doesn't matter.
Hm. Life here matters to me (and not just my own life). A huge number of people have done things for me, directly and indirectly. And I have done many things for many other people, directly and indirectly.

What do you mean by "it simply doesn't matter"?

And, to answer the original question, I'm not sure a god could convince me it existed. Around here, I would have to need a god before I could consider its existence. I guess the first step is to die and go to Heaven, then.
 
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WeDesignOurLives is offline WeDesignOurLives Post #7  November 5,2009, 5:36pm
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DennisWisconsin wrote :
It may have meaning to you.
I think I'm on safe ground to think that "life has meaning for me" is a choice and not a feeling and those who take the 'life has no meaning because we die" or "whatever meaning there may be is overshadowed by the incredible hardship and suffering in the world" or "I can't really ever get what I want given the way the world is" are basically either chemically depressed (in which case it's not a choice) or in the habit of being a victim.

(And I know this from personal experience. Smart people can get depressed pretty damn fast because there's infinite evidence for humanity being a failure (but individuals good).)
Last edited by WeDesignOurLives; November 6,2009 at 6:31am.
 
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Comedian is offline Comedian Post #8  December 2,2009, 9:45am
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I like dennis's illustration of the universe is god and we are the universe, therefore we are god.
That is exactly what some "religions" believe in, a divine spark in all of creation.
The Muslim-Christian-Judaism continuum is much more rigid with their books of myths.
 
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RoxyRedhead is offline RoxyRedhead Post #9  December 2,2009, 11:28am
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WeDesignOurLives wrote :
snip
If everyone with cancer woke up tomorrow and it was gone would that be proof? ?
Excuse me if this comes of as a rant--I'm still getting over yesterdays speech and I though of so much more I wish I'd said last night-so you get to read it.....

I'd probably believe aliens had come to earth to teach us their tech. before I believed in a god in these instances (except for the Oscar thing-anything can happen in Hollywood)

Belief in god comes with so many trappings bells and whistles, no matter which version of god one believes in that it's very difficult for me to believe in any of them.One religion argues free will, the other predestination. Each says their god is the only one and each version is different from the other ones. People kill for their version of their god.

I can't believe that a supreme being would choose to cause his creations such pain and agony, hate death and destruction and require them to believe in it through all of this.I can't believe in this evil god that is the root of centuries of death in its name-how can you worship something like that?

Faith is a crock...prayer makes the person praying feel she has some control her own destination.

And finally, an all powerful universal entity wouldn't really want such puny insignificant beings as our selves to worship it anyhow....we'd have nothing to offer it that it couldn't get for itself, unless it was very insecure-and if so how could it be a god?

I really believe in recycling. In the conservation of energy. When I die I am recycled into the earth to nurture the ground via cremation. My energy is used to feed the planet.

And I am a very happy woman...don't take anti-depressants, strive to make my world better thru volunteerism, I march for peace, adopt abused animals, am a vegetarian, fight for the rights of each individual to live his or her own life so long as it doesn't interfere with my rights and am not subject to road rage.
 
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awol71 is offline awol71 Post #10  December 2,2009, 4:44pm
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Roxy, I have to chime in here. There is a big difference between good religion and bad religion. You have talked about Buddhism before. Well, Buddhism is technically a religion. But it is (most of the time) an atheistic religion : there is no "god" in Buddhism. Yet it's not very different from theistic religions. They do the same thing, roughly, on their good side. And Buddhism does have its "unscientific" beliefs such as reincarnation.

However, some people think of bad gods for bad religions (the kind of god that you must be scared of) and some people think of good gods for good religions (the kind of god that loves you). Just like some atheists think that this world is a bad place, and some think it's a good place. The very essence of god, in good theistic religions, is to translate the belief that the universe is a good place! Given what I have seen of religions, all the good ones have at their core the fundamental value that the universe is, at its core, a good place. That life is worth living.

Of course, I have never met a god and I am not religious, so I'm not an authority on this matter. But I still choose that this universe is a good place. That there are some things worth living and fighting for. That we can have a future (and a good one, at that). Why should I choose differently?

Does that make me religious?
 
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