DennisWisconsin is offline DennisWisconsin Post #11  November 5,2009, 10:20am
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Comedian wrote :
Native Americans did not plan to keep their population in check.
Multiple causes of death and the complete lack of technology impaired their ability to significantly increase in population.
Lack of the wheel and draft animals made it difficult to bring more land under cultivation.
Less food equals less people.
They did not choose this situation as some sort of moral imperative.
The aboriginal cultures of several Latin American countries actually managed to ruin their environment.
The would denude surrounding hills for firewood and cause cataclysmic erosion.
Don't view the Native American as a noble savage.
It sounds like there were natural checks and balances... and yes, they were a noble people... yes they also had self interest... I have also studied ancient cultures... I disagree with your final assesment.
 
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DennisWisconsin is offline DennisWisconsin Post #12  November 5,2009, 10:23am
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notyet wrote :
+1
-1

I guess we bring balance to the galaxy Obiewan...
 
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notyet is offline notyet Post #13  November 5,2009, 1:35pm
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DennisWisconsin wrote :
... I disagree with your final assesment.
it's ok, dennis. you can be wrong...

again.
 
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DennisWisconsin is offline DennisWisconsin Post #14  November 5,2009, 2:30pm
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You think people (and I'm not just talking about native americans) had garbage prior to the 1700's? Yes indeed they did but not nearly to the scale that we have today... lol

That wasn't the OP's question, although it appeared to leave room for a wide discussion...

I'll rephrase somewhat: So would I as an atheist and an alien to another planet risk my life to save another culture?

I think that history shows that both theists and a-theists havew done it time and time again here on Earth. Living in jungles, and etc. risking the wrath of the natives not to mention disease for both altruistic and non-altruistic reasons... mostly of course non-altruistic reasons.

Altruism has been challenged many times as nothing more than a theory... but when you give your life is that the exception?
 
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j0hn8andy is offline j0hn8andy Post #15  November 5,2009, 7:08pm
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DennisWisconsin wrote :
Altruism has been challenged many times as nothing more than a theory... but when you give your life is that the exception?
Wouldn't that depend on whether one valued their life? Some do, some don't.

But I wouldn't so narrowly define Altruism as only giving a life.

For instance, I might tolerate another's viewpoint, rather than argue. I might even allow that person to have the last word. The person might go away thinking I shared their view.

I give that person a small measure of Satisfaction. And they don't even know it's a gift; they think they've earned it.

Altruistic? Or merely a calculated expediency?

j8a
 
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WeDesignOurLives is offline WeDesignOurLives Post #16  November 5,2009, 7:52pm
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DennisWisconsin wrote :
they were a noble people... yes they also had self interest... I have also studied ancient cultures... I disagree with your final assesment.
Do you mean they thought there were noble? I don't really know what makes a culture noble except to try and give it's people as much freedom as possible.

There's plenty of folks contesting the myth of their nobility such as The myth of the noble savage by Terry Jay Ellingson.
 
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Comedian is offline Comedian Post #17  November 6,2009, 8:37am
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DennisWisconsin wrote :
It sounds like there were natural checks and balances... and yes, they were a noble people... yes they also had self interest... I have also studied ancient cultures... I disagree with your final assesment.
You may have studied ancient cultures. But I have been reincarnated several times and experienced those cultures. Darn, I forgot to take my lithium this morning. Disregard this post...
 
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WeDesignOurLives is offline WeDesignOurLives Post #18  November 6,2009, 8:55am
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Comedian wrote :
But I have been reincarnated several times and experienced those cultures.
Yesterday I went to the doctor and asked him if he liked to study ancient cultures... he said no and I said "well in 15 minutes you'll have one of mine to study so good luck".
 
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awol71 is offline awol71 Post #19  November 7,2009, 9:14am
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Comedian wrote :
I had this conversation with a diehard atheist a few years ago.

Would you do the noble (altruistic) thing if there was no one there to see it?

Think up some kind of scenario like this. You are on a distant planet that has space flight. You know an asteroid is going to hit and destroy the innocent population of another planet. You could ram your ship into the asteroid to deflect it, but you might die and no one would be aware of it.

Now a Christian or some other religion would believe that God is observing and will reward your sacrifice.

My diehard atheist friend said that altruism is counter evolutionary...
Of course, both the atheist and the theist could refuse to commit suicide for an unknown population. Common sense can beat altruism any time!
Here's a famous dialog (names have been omitted to protect the guilty). Now, we may disagree on who's the atheist and who's the Christian (they might well even be two atheists or two Christians), but tradition is very clear on who is the "logical" one and who is the "emotional" one.

Emotional guy: They're animals.
Logical guy: There is an historic opportunity here.
Emotional guy: Don't believe them. Don't trust them.
Logical guy: They're dying.
Emotional guy: Let them die!

Point is, I really don't think the different answers have anything to do with religion in the end.
 
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Comedian is offline Comedian Post #20  November 7,2009, 9:30am
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awol, I don't think I understand your post.
Is it that atheists and theists can both be emotional and/or rational.
That would mean behavior is based primarily on emotion rather than religion.
 
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