awol71 is offline awol71 Post #61  November 2,2009, 2:53pm
awol71's Avatar

Enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2009

Posts: 618

See profile

DennisWisconsin wrote :
Merriam Webster must be written by Christians.
Please tell me more about this Christian conspiracy.
(Sorry Dennis, I just couldn't resist.)
 
  Reply With Quote
awol71 is offline awol71 Post #62  November 2,2009, 3:56pm
awol71's Avatar

Enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2009

Posts: 618

See profile

notyet wrote :
(atheists) generally believe there is no god
(atheists) hold that the universe is without a non-physical cause.
(atheists) believe that life arose through macro-evolution via natural selection
(atheists believe) in the tenets of what passes for "science" in our modern secular western culture.
Funny thing is, atheists (around here) frequently don't realize that atheists simply "don't believing in god" (according to one recently given definition, with or without the further belief that there is no god). There are many flavors of it. For instance, it is not incompatible with all religions (Buddhism is an atheist religion). Some famous atheists (Friedrich Nietzsche, Jean-Paul Sartre) really didn't care about the science : their position was philosophical. None of the statements above are necessarily true of all atheists (except the first, if you define atheists like that).

DennisWisconsin wrote :
Truth is atheists are inherently independant and don't really accept doctrine as a matter of principle and don't have accepted sources of authority such as popes, priests, etc
I just want to make this clear : "independent" is a feature of critical thinking (which involves making up your own mind about the evidence that has been presented to you). Whether someone is a critical thinker has nothing to do (specifically) with whether someone is an atheists.
Last edited by awol71; November 2,2009 at 4:00pm. Reason: (grammar)
 
  Reply With Quote
ming_on_mongo is offline ming_on_mongo Post #63  November 2,2009, 3:57pm
ming_on_mongo's Avatar

-Seattle transplant to NorCal... hmmm, sun good!

Veteran

Joined: Jul 2008

NorCal

Posts: 1,215

See profile

"Merriam Webster must be written by Christians."


I think he means it's the Atheist's equivalent of the "Liberal Media"....!
 
  Reply With Quote
chawks64 is offline chawks64 Post #64  November 2,2009, 4:12pm
chawks64's Avatar

is keeping warm with her Honey.

Power Poster

Joined: Jun 2008

Southern Nevada

Posts: 6,735

See profile

DennisWisconsin wrote :
We have passed laws denying basic civil rights against whole segments of our society based upon the religious belief that marriage is a religious issue. Of course I am talking about gay rights.
I'm snickering because, at my church, which is a mainstream denomination, the head of the fellowship committee is a lesbian. She and her partner are there every Sunday, and she frequently needs to announce new projects during the services.

I have to admit, it kind of surprised me, since this is a hot issue among Christians. But she's very friendly and persuasive, and willing to do the work, so she's the logical choice. Even the old folks are fine with it. Either that or they think she and her partner are just really good friends...
 
  Reply With Quote
WeDesignOurLives is offline WeDesignOurLives Post #65  November 2,2009, 5:32pm
WeDesignOurLi…'s Avatar

is 20% off this week only!

Virtuoso

Joined: Dec 2007

Philly

Posts: 2,958

See profile

awol71 wrote :
I just want to make this clear : "independent" is a feature of critical thinking (which involves making up your own mind about the evidence that has been presented to you).
I contest...

.. a rationalization is about making up your own mind about the evidence presented. (It's a person thinking that god must exist because the universe had to have a beginning.)

A critical thinker would say "why do you presume the universe had to begin?" and "Why does anything have to begin?" and accept the most rational conclusion they can make and then perhaps seek to challenge it by reading the details of the critical thinking of others.

I was not terribly happy when I concluded at age 11 that there was no god (or rather no evidence) and I reviewed that thinking up and down for 2-3 days before I would accept it.

If you're committed to truth then you accept the results of the critical thinking regardless how you feel about it. If god didn't create the universe how did it start? The presumption is that it did. What's the evidence for that? Is there some universal law that says everything must begin and end? How about one that says that everything that begins must end?

So critical thinking leads me to end up with that begin and end are human constructs and that it's perfectly legit for the universe to have always existed which doesn't feel right at all but that's how I (and others far smarter than I) see it.

So I don't know why it's independent any more than any other thinking an individual does.
 
  Reply With Quote
awol71 is offline awol71 Post #66  November 2,2009, 6:44pm
awol71's Avatar

Enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2009

Posts: 618

See profile

awol71 wrote :
I just want to make this clear : "independent" is a feature of critical thinking (which involves making up your own mind about the evidence that has been presented to you).
WeDesignOurLives wrote :
I contest...

.. a rationalization is about making up your own mind about the evidence presented...
You may contest all you like. Those who are interested may validate my interpretation of "critical thinking" against other references such as this one and make up their own minds : Critical thinking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. A "rationalization" is a different thing (at no point did I use that word, nor did I want to use it, because it is usually pejorative : Rationalization (psychology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

WeDesignOurLives wrote :
So I don't know why it's independent any more than any other thinking an individual does.
"Independent thinking" is still "thinking", of course. In this context, "independence" generally refers to the fact that we make up our own mind (as opposed to letting others make it up for us, which is what we seem to do when we accept what other people say without questioning it). More technically speaking, a "critical thinker" is much less prone to accept "arguments from authority".

I was using "independent" in the way that I had understood it in Dennis' post, as equivalent to "critical thinkers". I believe that is what he meant, given the phrases that followed : don't really accept doctrine as a matter of principle and don't have accepted sources of authority. Dennis, would you be so kind as to say if this is what you meant?

WeDesignOurLives wrote :
So critical thinking leads me to end up with that begin and end are human constructs
Although I'm not questioning the rest of your post, I feel you should ask yourself where the problem really is. How is an "infinite regression" any less of a human construct than an "uncaused cause"?
 
  Reply With Quote
WeDesignOurLives is offline WeDesignOurLives Post #67  November 5,2009, 8:02pm
WeDesignOurLi…'s Avatar

is 20% off this week only!

Virtuoso

Joined: Dec 2007

Philly

Posts: 2,958

See profile

"Those who are interested may validate my interpretation of "critical thinking"

I don't recall you made any claim that this was your own interpretation...without that folks might assume you're talking about the actual real idea.

"How is an "infinite regression" any less of a human construct than an "uncaused cause"

Well ultimately every construct is just a construct because it's just an invention of language. When you say "any less" it's not clear whether you're talking about a conventional, moral, or other quality.

Conventionally stealing a dollar is worse than stealing a penny. Morally it might be the same... one shouldn't steal, period.
 
  Reply With Quote
Leo_V is offline Leo_V Post #68  November 7,2009, 10:12am
Leo_V's Avatar

Looking for a bite...

Quick Study

Joined: Oct 2009

The South

Posts: 112

See profile

.. a rationalization is about making up your own mind about the evidence presented. (It's a person thinking that god must exist because the universe had to have a beginning.)

Well those are really different aren't they - the assertion and the erstwhile parenthetical support....

A critical thinker (defn how and by who) would say "why do you presume the universe had to begin?" and "Why does anything have to begin?" and accept the most rational conclusion (again, who's defn? Is the Ms. Universe pageant? Are you Bob Barker?) they can make and then perhaps seek to challenge it by reading the details of the critical thinking of others.

I type, therefore I am HERE. Just call me a "sentient" bug and give me a Latin name....

However intelligent and informed we may be, there is a universal that is beyond us. I will assert that we keep both our senses and our spirits.
 
  Reply With Quote
Nylit is offline Nylit Post #69  November 7,2009, 9:48pm
Nylit's Avatar

can't sleep.

Enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2009

Southern USA

Posts: 729

See profile

But doesn't our Constitution say:
"One nation under God"? Therefore, we base our laws up that principal.
Right or wrong in your eyes or anyone's its how our nation was founded,, go back in time and change it if it bothers you that much.
Oh geez!! Why did I jump in this discussion I am not as deep as you guys are.
And technically speaking if there is gay rights (which, btw, I have nothing against), and gays marry.
Then mankind will die out eventually unless we mass produce test tube babies.
I think gays do well as parents in a lot of ways, but as for marriage , I hope we don't all go gay, or we are a dead race. LOL
And don't jump on me,,I am sensitive today
 
  Reply With Quote
chawks64 is offline chawks64 Post #70  November 8,2009, 4:44am
chawks64's Avatar

is keeping warm with her Honey.

Power Poster

Joined: Jun 2008

Southern Nevada

Posts: 6,735

See profile

Nylit wrote :
And technically speaking if there is gay rights (which, btw, I have nothing against), and gays marry.
Then mankind will die out eventually unless we mass produce test tube babies.
You've accidentally stumbled upon my evil plan!

I'm trying to heavily promote it amongst the female population, thus freeing up all of the men for myself!

If there's plenty left over, I might be willing to spare a few...
 
  Reply With Quote
Reply


« What would an atheist do? | Atheists, Humorists, and Science | Wiki Wiki »
Topic Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new topics
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Topics
Topic Topic Starter Board Replies Last Post
Would You Date a Christian? rocchio Atheists, Humorists, and Science 112 September 24,2009 11:16pm
Atheist Issues of the Day DennisWisconsin Atheists, Humorists, and Science 90 August 4,2009 5:52pm
Debate Potholes... TaoShaffer Atheists, Humorists, and Science 28 August 4,2009 5:05pm
"she's just not that into you [Christians]" Chapter 1 grammar_gal Romance and the Freethinker 25 June 1,2009 5:25pm

Looking for a Great Relationship?

Get started now. Fill out this form and take the questionnaire to receive your matches.

First Name:

I'm a:
seeking

Postal Code:

Country:

Email:

Confirm Email:

Password:


How did you hear about us?


Latest on our Dating Advice Discussion Boards

“It's important to understand the way a site works. Rigidly assuming / insisting that eH works likes all the others you're used to isn't utilizing the site functions to your best advantage. No.... ... ” –  Wiseman2

Join the “First contact on eHarmony, smile, questions, email?” discussion

“ If you have yet to meet, you don't know him or whether you two will form a connection. Connections formed over e-mail tend to be fantasies. You will see this echoed over and over by experienced ... ” –  shapeShifter79

Join the “How do i recoonect with him again?” discussion

“ Then it's a bit premature to worry about being friend-zoned. The first step is to go out on dates! What specific steps did you try? How many women did you ask out in person? Did you buy a ... ” –  shapeShifter79

Join the “For women to answer: How to avoid the friend zone” discussion

“ This is an old thread. She asked this in 2010. By now they are likely very exclusive or very over. ” –  shapeShifter79

Join the “is there a reason to ask if we're exclusive?” discussion

“ I'm sure he wouldn't get that. And I can't be sure that was the actual message. But it sems kind of likely to me.” –  boomer_gal

Join the “Why am I not successful?” discussion

“Hi eccemuliere and welcome to eHA.On an internet forum like eHA, you're going to get a wide variety of responses; some you'll like and some you won't. It's best to focus on the ones that speak to ... ” –  Sassafras54

Join the “Being blown off, or something else?” discussion

“ Although I have ignored my gut at times, in hindsight it's always been right, in terms of recognizing bad choices. QUOTE] But once we realize our past mistakes, we can use our reason to clue us ... ” –  eccemuliere

Join the “Is Your Gut Leading - or Misleading You?” discussion



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 5:01am.

Discussion Boards Archive

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0