rocchio is offline rocchio Post #1  August 9,2009, 8:34pm
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As a freethinker and man who categorically rejects all forms of mysticism, I, and presumably the others in the group, find myself in the minority of society when it comes to such issues as religion and other forms of superstition. At the same time, we live in a culture that embraces religion, more specifically---Christianity. Since Christians, in their varying degrees of embracement of christian doctrine, make up the majority of the population, limiting dating to other freethinkers also limits the dating pool by great measure. In short, I'd like to hear some opinions. Would you date a christian or other mystic for pragmatic reasons?
 
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rix is offline rix Post #2  August 10,2009, 2:27am
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Happy 1st Anniversary, babe!

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Good question! I have wrestled with issues relating to skepticism and spirituality for some time. And perhaps, the most troubling issue when it comes to Christianity for me, is lack of authenticity. As sociologist Dr. Anthony Campolo once remarked, "the Church has never fully recovered from a position of power and coercion since the time of Constantine." The persecuted became the persecutor; and those who were willing to die for their faith, demonstrated that they were also willing to kill for it. Dr. Campolo concluded that the Church should be known for it's loving sacrifice, not the power or weight it could throw around. However, from Constantine to the modern day Religious Right, power and influence have sadly become the hallmarks of Christendom.

It is troubling that belonging to a church is often key to respectability and success in our nominally Christian society. In other words, oftentimes if you want to get ahead, you have to play the church game, and it is this lack of authenticity that I find very disturbing. However, this is nothing new, and I'm not the only one. Around one hundred and fifty years ago, a German Jew was deeply troubled that his father gave up his heritage, and converted to Christianity to get ahead. His troubled mind formed the basis for what he termed "dialectical materialism," and he created a system of thought that would be deeply influential in the twentieth century. His name was Karl Marx. Also, theistic and atheistic existentialists alike, from Kierkegaard to Nietzsche, were troubled by "Christendom" and its lack of authenticity.

But personally, about a decade ago, I was at the height of my personal skepticism; and I had the opportunity to get in on a very lucrative opportunity, if I would play the religious game and get "chummy" with a certain broker. And who knows, I might have been wearing a suit today, and making a six figure income if I had only "conformed." However, I refused out of principle. Therefore, my advice would be, whether you're a skeptic or a theist, stick to your principles and values. After all, your personal principles and values are the only things you can truly call your own ( And, look where it got me! Had I played the "game," went to church, carried around the biggest study Bible, and played spiritual one-up-manship by looking for flaws and quirks in my fellow parishioners, I might also be living the American Dream with 2.5 kids, a wife with a fistful of credit cards, a chicken in every pot, and a car in every garage. Inauthentic nominal Christianity in action!).
Last edited by rix; August 10,2009 at 2:44am.
 
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DennisWisconsin is offline DennisWisconsin Post #3  August 10,2009, 2:46am
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Because online dating allows me to screen my choices, I do screen out anyone who catagorizes themselves as christian.

I'm happy being alone so I will wait for someone who won't aggravate me on a daily basis.
 
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rix is offline rix Post #4  August 10,2009, 2:54am
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Happy 1st Anniversary, babe!

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DennisWisconsin wrote :
I'm happy being alone so I will wait for someone who won't aggravate me on a daily basis.
Well ... that's a woman's prerogative regardless of her belief system!
 
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DennisWisconsin is offline DennisWisconsin Post #5  August 10,2009, 3:16am
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rix wrote :
Well ... that's a woman's prerogative regardless of her belief system!
I knew someone would catch that!

Girls... Rix said it, not me!

lol
 
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bookhead is offline bookhead Post #6  August 10,2009, 8:09am
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Christians aren't quite the moral tyrants and slaves to church doctrine that Hollywood would make us out to be. Some of us have minds of our own and believe as Thomas Jefferson did and expressed so well when he said "I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to Heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all".

Having a free will and an intellect to match it, I would say to my detractors that it is possible to see God in the Big Bang, or in a wave particle, or even, dare I say it, in the bubble universes of membrane theory...

Granted, I am not your average Christian, however, I am a Christian...
 
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DennisWisconsin is offline DennisWisconsin Post #7  August 10,2009, 9:05am
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bookhead wrote :
Christians aren't quite the moral tyrants and slaves to church doctrine that Hollywood would make us out to be. Some of us have minds of our own and believe as Thomas Jefferson did and expressed so well when he said "I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to Heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all".

Having a free will and an intellect to match it, I would say to my detractors that it is possible to see God in the Big Bang, or in a wave particle, or even, dare I say it, in the bubble universes of membrane theory...

Granted, I am not your average Christian, however, I am a Christian...
Welcome to the group Book!

My attitudes and opinions don't stem from Hollywood. They are derived from personal experience and from interacting with religious extremists on this site. There are quite a few here and they have their own group so they aren't difficult to find.
 
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shoelace is offline shoelace Post #8  August 10,2009, 1:14pm
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In eH dating, it's probably easier to look for those who already know they do not assign themselves to any religion. But when the site questions, "what religion are you?," one feels obliged to answer from a multiplicity of feelings and thoughts. Book points out that his imagination is not limited to, nor even in much resemblance to, the dead end alley thinking of any mainstream religion. If you posed the question fully, with a full description of what is meant by the word God, even book would probably admit that he is atheist in principle, even while calling himself Christian. It may sound contradictory, but it is probably the way the religion will ultimately change and become humanist rather than greedy, selfish and dictatorial, as I see it.

For that matter, even Jesus was an atheist, not believing in the God of the Pharisees. But it probably wasn't termed as such in his culture. There are many slippery edges to things when we think about indeterminants (which they are before one sees them for what they are). The only ones we can really be sure of who hold a non-contradictory belief would be holy-rollers and pure atheists. The rest are still in the process of thinking about things that haven't been fully dispensed with in their mind one way or another.

I would date a Christian if she could agree with me that in principle she actually held atheistic beliefs with respect to hard and fast Biblical teachings. Otherwise, I'd question her ability to enjoy very many of the same things that I enjoy. I am in fact in such a positive situation with several female friends, though it doesn't go quite so far as dating.

Here is a corollary: if you are a Christian, would you date an atheist?
 
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Andrewthecarrotman is offline Andrewthecarrotman Post #9  August 10,2009, 2:38pm
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My attitudes and opinions don't stem from Hollywood. They are derived from personal experience and from interacting with religious extremists on this site. There are quite a few here and they have their own group so they aren't difficult to find.[/quote]


I have to agree with Dennis here. Hollywood does dictate our perceptions of many things, but our experiences color it a whole lot more. The problem with many of the religious type, is that they do get pushy and sometimes make a big deal out of religion. I get turned off by whenever someone mentions the topic. It says to me that religion and consequently matching theirs is extremely important to them. Then on to the extremeists.....

On a seperate issue, no one believes that everyone fits exactly into one group, but when you select a group that you list as identifying with (Christian) you identify with the perceptions of the group. Catholics (child molesters, the press makes a big deal out of it, although priesthood in general is what attracts pedophiles by its nature), Baptists (Extremists who disown anyone not Baptists), Mormon (polygamists), Jehovah's Witnesses (the annoying people who hand out religious pamphlets), or Christian (Extremists in general). Remember that it is the extremes that grab the attention, not the middle
 
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Andrewthecarrotman is offline Andrewthecarrotman Post #10  August 10,2009, 2:43pm
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[quote=shoelace;706231]For that matter, even Jesus was an atheist, not believing in the God of the Pharisees. quote]

Jesus was a Jew. He did not agree with the policies of the Pharisees, who desecrated "the house of God." He believed in God ("my father's work"). He was a good example of a seperate but similar belief system. The Protestant reformation was the next big example.
 
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