shoelace is offline shoelace Post #1  August 1,2009, 9:12pm
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Okay, here's something crazy...

Could information travel back and forth through time by means of excitation of virtual particles (electron/positron pairs of the Higgs Field)?

Stephen Hawking used virtual particles to demonstrate that black holes must radiate energy. I've read a paper in which virtual particles are cited as the source of inertia. Certainly the math could be done to illustrate this proposition.

I would call this a god-like effect, or more precisely, it is how electrons (and molecules) in the mind may be able to utilize the Higgs Field to make use of future and past instances of themselves, such that thought would not be confined merely to the present, even though it is experienced in the present. Nothing supernatural here.

Of course, this is conjecture. I don't presume to know anything about virtual particle pairs, also called "closed time loops." The particle pairs should probably be drawn as circles instead of ovals. The squiggly lines represent photons, the transmitter of force between electrons (and positrons).

The drawing is sort of crude...I drew it on the last page of Stephen Weinberg's essay, "What About God?," from Dreams of a Final Theory, in Christopher Hitchen's book of collected essays entitled, The Portable Atheist (very nice stuff.)
Last edited by shoelace; August 1,2009 at 9:13pm. Reason: punctuation
 
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TaoShaffer is offline TaoShaffer Post #2  August 1,2009, 10:11pm
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Interesting stuff. Looks like I'm going to have to do some reading on it.

--Tao
 
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DennisWisconsin is offline DennisWisconsin Post #3  August 1,2009, 11:38pm
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shoelace wrote :
Okay, here's something crazy...

Could information travel back and forth through time by means of excitation of virtual particles (electron/positron pairs of the Higgs Field)?
Eric Baird in his book, "Relativity in Curved Spacetime" writes that as long as the quantity of energy, momentum, and information balance out in the end, virtual particle pairs could move back and forth in time... He also writes that information can disappear and reappear... This is where I get lost...
 
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boobox is offline boobox Post #4  August 2,2009, 12:53am
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It is physically impossible to travel BACK in time.... but forward? It would take a lot of convincing/scientific proof to convince me of that, but I can't out rule it.
 
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DennisWisconsin is offline DennisWisconsin Post #5  August 2,2009, 6:11am
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boobox wrote :
It is physically impossible to travel BACK in time.... but forward? It would take a lot of convincing/scientific proof to convince me of that, but I can't out rule it.
I don't think that the OP was talking about 'physically' going back in time. It would take less energy in the quantum realm? and in theory possible?

Stephen Hawking also talked about histories in his latest public appearance... (Some rock stars don't know how to fade out of the limelight... but then that drive of his is what has probably has kept him alive.) We are made of quantum particles. Does uncertainty allow us to choose our history?

On the universal scale the human size was said recently to be right smack dab in the middle. What about our size changes the rules by which we operate. It is good that they (the rules) do change or we might wake up to a different history every day.

If we choose our history is the knowledge of that history anything like going back into the past?

One more thing... You travel back into the past every time you look at a star...
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DennisWisconsin is offline DennisWisconsin Post #6  August 2,2009, 6:21am
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The quantum world is an incredbly foreign world. I don't even recognize the 'information' that results from taking measurements... What type of information do we find? What type of measurements are we taking?
 
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TaoShaffer is offline TaoShaffer Post #7  August 2,2009, 1:29pm
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Does this have something to do with the Schrödinger's cat thought experiment?

Schrödinger's cat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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DennisWisconsin is offline DennisWisconsin Post #8  August 2,2009, 4:10pm
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TaoShaffer wrote :
Does this have something to do with the Schrödinger's cat thought experiment?

Schrödinger's cat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
How quantum particles act... (Schrdinger's cat and the two slit experiments) or how we witness the results of how they act... seems to be a large part of the conjecture associated with quantum particle pairs doing crazy things.
 
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DennisWisconsin is offline DennisWisconsin Post #9  August 2,2009, 4:14pm
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What happened to our resident philosopher/scientist?
 
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shoelace is offline shoelace Post #10  August 3,2009, 8:10pm
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I get kicked off of the system every time I click on a thread topic (I've tried just about everything to fix it). I can contribute only by using someone else's computer and connection, so you may not see that much of me.

Dennis, I'll look for Eric Baird's book. Sounds worthwhile.

Virtual particle pairs fill empty space, popping into and out of existence. When near a charged particle, such as an electron, virtual particles polarize themselves, as I understand it, with the like-charged virtual particle moving away from
the electron and the opposite charged virtual moving toward it. The effect is a charged cloud of particles around the real particle.

From our point of view, moving through time, we see the electron and positron pair appear, do their dance, then vanish back into eachother (and into space itself). But from the pair's point of view, the virtual positron can be thought of as simply the electron moving back in time. The idea probably makes more sense in string theory, the pair being represented by a torus. This is why they are called "closed time loops." They pervade empty space.

I can imagine all sorts of really interesting effects resulting from these things.

In the end, though, the energy does have to balance out. Somehow you would have to avoid producing an infinite feedback loop such that the energy of a single particle could be ramped up to infinity (which would probably wipe out the universe).
 
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