TaoShaffer is offline TaoShaffer Post #31  July 6,2009, 12:49am
TaoShaffer's Avatar

Quick Study

Joined: Sep 2008

San Diego, CA

Posts: 177

See profile

I'm sorry you don't want to stay.

I know we sometimes get embroiled in argument and feelings get hurt.

I suppose it's little comfort to say that I've enjoyed the back and forth on this thread. I rarely get a chance to have these kinds of discussions. And would whole-heartedly like you to stick around.

If it's any consolation your position is difficult when trying to meet Atheist argument on a scientific ground. My counter move to your best card (the impossibility of knowing everything, so why can't there be one?) was going to be something along the lines of "well then the Thor, Aphrodite, Allah, Viracocha, Shiva, Santa, the Easter Bunny, and an invisible parrot on my shoulder must exist too since we don't have all the information as well. Would have been a lot of fun.

Here's a pointer for the future. Don't try to argue knowledge and science with an Atheist, try instead to argue on the basis of the heart. Feelings, benefits of prayer (there have been scientific studies to suggest that meditation can be benficial btw), and (because your a Christian) God's Grace.

Sometimes I wish I could argue from such grounds and believe it. It would be so maddening to everyone else.

--Tao
 
  Reply With Quote
DennisWisconsin is offline DennisWisconsin Post #32  July 6,2009, 2:51am
DennisWiscons…'s Avatar

Milwaukee

Power Poster

Joined: Jun 2008

Milwaukee

Posts: 5,720

See profile

It is difficult when an entity like the Christian Church relys completely on faith when putting forth its message. I could say gobaldy guke... I have no facts but have faith... and then you would just believe gobaldy gook?

They just found the oldest new testiment book hidden in some church supposedly written in the 4th century and it shows how the bible has been changed over the centuries to serve the ends of those in control. I can't help but think that the original was written for the same pupose.
 
  Reply With Quote
TaoShaffer is offline TaoShaffer Post #33  July 6,2009, 3:17am
TaoShaffer's Avatar

Quick Study

Joined: Sep 2008

San Diego, CA

Posts: 177

See profile

DennisWisconsin wrote :
It is difficult when an entity like the Christian Church relys completely on faith when putting forth its message. I could say gobaldy guke... I have no facts but have faith... and then you would just believe gobaldy gook?

They just found the oldest new testiment book hidden in some church supposedly written in the 4th century and it shows how the bible has been changed over the centuries to serve the ends of those in control. I can't help but think that the original was written for the same pupose.

I read that BBC article I wasn't aware that they'd translated it however? My understanding was that's they'd posted the manuscript on the internet for rresearchers to collaborate on.

--Tao
 
  Reply With Quote
TaoShaffer is offline TaoShaffer Post #34  July 6,2009, 3:27am
TaoShaffer's Avatar

Quick Study

Joined: Sep 2008

San Diego, CA

Posts: 177

See profile

I was under they impression that they hadn't translated it yet they'd just posted it for study?

--Tao
 
  Reply With Quote
DennisWisconsin is offline DennisWisconsin Post #35  July 6,2009, 6:07am
DennisWiscons…'s Avatar

Milwaukee

Power Poster

Joined: Jun 2008

Milwaukee

Posts: 5,720

See profile

TaoShaffer wrote :
I was under they impression that they hadn't translated it yet they'd just posted it for study?

--Tao
I heard an interview this morning of one of those people studying it. If you go to NPR's website there may be a transcript... I'm at work so I can't right now.
 
  Reply With Quote
TaoShaffer is offline TaoShaffer Post #36  July 6,2009, 12:30pm
TaoShaffer's Avatar

Quick Study

Joined: Sep 2008

San Diego, CA

Posts: 177

See profile

I don't know I would hope that Christianity, like everything had, its "innocent" period where it was actually believed from top to bottom with no one having designs on controlling others.

--Tao
 
  Reply With Quote
rix is offline rix Post #37  July 6,2009, 3:03pm
rix's Avatar

Happy 1st Anniversary, babe!

Veteran

Joined: Mar 2008

Cascadia

Posts: 1,388

See profile

TaoShaffer wrote :

If it's any consolation your position is difficult when trying to meet Atheist argument on a scientific ground. My counter move to your best card (the impossibility of knowing everything, so why can't there be one?) was going to be something along the lines of "well then the Thor, Aphrodite, Allah, Viracocha, Shiva, Santa, the Easter Bunny, and an invisible parrot on my shoulder must exist too since we don't have all the information as well. Would have been a lot of fun.

Here's a pointer for the future. Don't try to argue knowledge and science with an Atheist, try instead to argue on the basis of the heart.

First of all, I appreciate a well-reasoned argument. And, dislike intellectual dishonesty on both sides of the issue. However, the tactic you mention has been overly tried and tested and found left wanting. And, I sincerely hope you can come up with a better line of argumentation than the collective reductionism of the "Zeus, Odin, sky-god, 'flying spagetti monster'" sophomoric tirade ( The "flying spagetti monster" bit would have been cute, if original. However, I have discovered that it did not originate with the atheist who first posted it on this site. But it has been circling around for a few years).

I would also dispute the implication that atheists have the corner on science and knowledge. Atheist writers of the nineteenth century were the first to contend that the burden of proof lies with the theist, and that the atheist has no responsibility to offer any validation for their position. However, such an assumption is misguided, and the issue is not in debunking imaginary creatures, but whether or not there is an intelligence behind the existence of the universe.
Last edited by rix; July 7,2009 at 1:24am.
 
  Reply With Quote
RoxyRedhead is offline RoxyRedhead Post #38  July 6,2009, 7:50pm

Unregistered

Joined: May 2009

Northwest

Posts: 3,239

See profile

Chawks-if you are reading...
If one of us went to the plethora of Christian, Muslim, Wiccan etc sites online and posted Atheist dogma we would be blasted and lambasted from here to the moon.
I really don't think I misread your post, the one I quoted..You said exactly what I cut and pasted--then deny it when called on it.
What do you expect?
On one hand you say you aren't here to convert us and OTOH wonder why we are closed minded.
I'm no spring chicken, was raised in a very strict Christian household and studied religious philosophy in college (50 years ago).
I have come to my belief of non belief in a supreme power, entity or being thru reading and study and prayer for faith!
It was much more difficult to abandon the faith I was raised in (and be abandoned by the siblings who still practice that faith) than to just passively accept that their teachings are the truth.
Yet my mind told me I was fooling myself. My searches told me I was fooling myself and of course the prayer accomplished nothing.
Good for you for your faith-we live in a country that allows each of us to make that decision-and this group is formed by people of no faith or of doubtful faith.
Stay-debate-but be prepared to be called on your assumptions and doublespeak if you post.
If you need to be reassured that you're correct than post those thoughts on a Christian site where folks will agree with you.
BTW-I call myself a Buddhist as I practice that philosophy (it's not a religion)-but this is the group I most identify with.
Rox
 
  Reply With Quote
RoxyRedhead is offline RoxyRedhead Post #39  July 6,2009, 7:54pm

Unregistered

Joined: May 2009

Northwest

Posts: 3,239

See profile

Thanks for the welcome Dennis-I love debate and reading well thought out and fair minded philosophical discussion such as I find here.
Rox
 
  Reply With Quote
TaoShaffer is offline TaoShaffer Post #40  July 7,2009, 2:14am
TaoShaffer's Avatar

Quick Study

Joined: Sep 2008

San Diego, CA

Posts: 177

See profile

rix wrote :
First of all, I appreciate a well-reasoned argument. And, dislike intellectual dishonesty on both sides of the issue. However, the tactic you mention has been overly tried and tested and found left wanting. And, I sincerely hope you can come up with a better line of argumentation than the collective reductionism of the "Zeus, Odin, sky-god, 'flying spagetti monster'" sophomoric tirade ( The "flying spagetti monster" bit would have been cute, if original. However, I have discovered that it did not originate with the atheist who first posted it on this site. But it has been circling around for a few years).

I would also dispute the implication that atheists have the corner on science and knowledge. Atheist writers of the nineteenth century were the first to contend that the burden of proof lies with the theist, and that the atheist has no responsibility to offer any validation for their position. However, such an assumption is misguided, and the issue is not in debunking imaginary creatures, but whether or not there is an intelligence behind the existence of the universe.
True. True. And True.

But it's no fun simply to say, "the burden of proof lies on your shoulders" because it ends up that both sides take that position and arguments don't get fielded. It's synonymous in mind of sticking my head in a hole and waiting for everyone to go away.

I enjoy debating and honestly I've never had a chance to properly field the above mentioned "flying spaghetti monster" argument. Sometimes its liberating to play in the mud. Sometimes its easier to be the fool than the sage.

Is there an intelligence behind the universe? Why would there be? What would be the purpose? Or assumed purpose? What can this "intelligence" do? If anything? Did it evolve or was it always there? What is its relevance?

It's just not a question that I find much interest in really... Too many unknowns, too many variables and no evidence to suggest that such a thing exists. Any discussion on the matter would be pure speculation.

--Tao
Last edited by TaoShaffer; July 7,2009 at 2:18am.
 
  Reply With Quote
Reply


« Debate Potholes... | Atheists, Humorists, and Science | Something Is Different In Here... »
Topic Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new topics
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Topics
Topic Topic Starter Board Replies Last Post
Red flags or issues? Your thougths please ngawildflower "Red Flag" Central 15 November 12,2010 9:51am
Why issues cause Libs and Cons to react so strongly against each other? outlaw1 Politics 84 February 18,2010 6:37pm
Trust issues continued justme41 Relationships 9 June 19,2009 8:33am
Medical Issues debwings Ask a Dating Expert 12 June 7,2009 10:02pm
The EX issues n8nc4 Relationships 6 June 6,2009 5:10am

Looking for a Great Relationship?

Get started now. Fill out this form and take the questionnaire to receive your matches.

First Name:

I'm a:
seeking

Postal Code:

Country:

Email:

Confirm Email:

Password:


How did you hear about us?


Latest on our Dating Advice Discussion Boards

“Yes, you are considered aged in your thirties! Next stop, early registration for AARP! I guess we can go drown our sorrows in a bottle of prune juice now!” –  emma_hazards

Join the “Free Communication Weekend” discussion

“Oh, I gotcha. I was thinking of people who meet at a party, activity, or mixer and then agree to a date. Thank you for clarifying.” –  Bluskies4ever3

Join the “It's a matter of fit” discussion

“How would I go about ending this friendship nicely?” –  generallyyou

Join the “Friend Zone” discussion

“Money isn't everything and at the end of the day, you'd have to sleep with the guy. For me, if the woman isn't kissable, she's not my type. Fact is, if you're with someone you truly love, it ... ” –  sun73

Join the “My first "Matchmaker" date” discussion

“The iPad app allows for mass archiving and mass closing. Otherwise you have to go through each individually, twice.” –  emma_hazards

Join the “Removing old matches - there has to be a better way” discussion

“Not dumping. You're going through a lot right now. I remember when my best friend from high school lost her dad. Very traumatic, so my condolences. Hopefully you have siblings and your mom to share ... ” –  emma_hazards

Join the “Photo Review” discussion

“...or he knows your general age and is just interested in a cougar. On the other hand, their are couples who have 20 yr age differences or more, and they are happy. For some age is just a number, and ... ” –  Altair

Join the “He is much younger” discussion

“Thanks! Hope you are doing well!” –  RiceBaby

Join the “dating venues” discussion



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:16pm.

Discussion Boards Archive

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0