Do Atheists Enjoy More Freedom and Less Guilt?


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DennisWisconsin is offline DennisWisconsin Post #1  April 12,2009, 4:46pm
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I think the answer is a resounding yes. I am a grown up! I don't need a church telling me how to behave.


Ithink one of the biggest freedoms is that I have sex when I think is the right time... not whena church dictates.
 
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TexasTransplant is offline TexasTransplant Post #2  April 13,2009, 5:44pm
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I do feel that I have more "freedom" than people who are bound by mindless obedience to rules that may be outdated or irrelevant to a situation. Not feeling like I'm going to hell because I enjoy red wine with dinner (I was raised Southern Baptist, Does it show?) or shouldI chose to enjoy sex outside of a marriage. (The last time I actually thought "OMG I'm going to hell..." was when I found out a guy I was dating was the same age as the kids I babysat when I was in high school- 12 years younger than I was at the time, but that is entirely another story)


But I still have plenty of guilt. The difference is that basis for the guiltis not failing to live up to rules and standards. It's fear of disappointing those I care about. I feel guilty when I forget my sister-in-laws Bday (or yours, Dennis) or my step mother on mother's day. And only because I know they would porefer I remember these things.


I think you never quite outgrow all guilt. And in some cases it may be genetic- my grandmother's maiden name is Blumenstock, German Jewish. It's how you handle guilt that's different when you have a non-religious world view.


Mel
 
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awol71 is offline awol71 Post #3  April 13,2009, 6:25pm
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I tend to agree, TT. Religious or not, guilt comes with a conscience. I'm very concerned by people who have no guilt (people who don't feel bad when they do something wrong).


But the relationship between freedom and atheismis an interesting subject. Let's see... I think the classic argument is : atheism --> materialism --> determinism --> no freedom. How do you folks think around that one?
 
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TexasTransplant is offline TexasTransplant Post #4  April 13,2009, 6:33pm
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awol71,576713 wrote :

Let's see... I think the classic argument is : atheism --> materialism --> determinism --> no freedom. How do you folks think around that one?
I don't generally see athiests as more materialistic than other members of sociey with more mainstream religious views. And especially not the members of the Texas megachurches that equate following god's word with a way to achieve financial prosperity.


I tend to think that athiests/agnistics are just as likely (or more likely) to be bohemian/hippy and eschew material things in favor of "freedom".


Mel
 
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awol71 is offline awol71 Post #5  April 13,2009, 6:50pm
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Oh, sorry. I don't mean materialsim as in "materialistic". I mean materialism as in "everything boils down toparticles and forces (and other physical interactions)". The typical "scientific reduction". It's an old question, but I'm always looking for new insights.


Every side certainly has its fair share of materialistic members, I'd have to agree about that.
 
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DennisWisconsin is offline DennisWisconsin Post #6  April 14,2009, 2:51am
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Freedom as in the perception of freedom, not actual freedom. Isn't that what life is all about? A person's perception of events? We wouldn't know reality if it hit us over the head... which it often does...
 
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awol71 is offline awol71 Post #7  April 14,2009, 4:04pm
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DennisWisconsin,577322 wrote :

Freedom as in the perception of freedom, not actual freedom. Isn't that what life is all about? A person's perception of events? We wouldn't know reality if it hit us over the head... which it often does...
Freedom is power!It's alsoresponsibility. If they enjoy more freedom, should atheists feel more guilt?
 
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DennisWisconsin is offline DennisWisconsin Post #8  April 15,2009, 2:24am
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awol71,578055 wrote :

DennisWisconsin,577322 wrote :


Freedom as in the perception of freedom, not actual freedom. Isn't that what life is all about? A person's perception of events? We wouldn't know reality if it hit us over the head... which it often does...


Freedom is power!It's alsoresponsibility. If they enjoy more freedom, should atheists feel more guilt?
What would be driving the guilt? If they have not broken a law nor the golden rule...
 
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three_eyes is offline three_eyes Post #9  April 15,2009, 11:53am
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Freedom, yes. Guilt - depends on the source of the guilt. If you're converted, maybe you have more guilt, maybe less. For me, not being indoctrinated on any religion, organized or otherwise, I have no guilt, and it's a great thing.


I fully agree with you Dennis, freedom to have sex without restrictions or guilt is a huge benefit! I also don't feel guilty spending my Sunday mornings watching the talking heads shows (instead of at church), or feeling like I have to pray or pay some sort of other homage to god(s). I just live for myself, and those I love.
 
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awol71 is offline awol71 Post #10  April 15,2009, 4:35pm
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DennisWisconsin,578796 wrote :

Freedom as in the perception of freedom, not actual freedom.


What would be driving the guilt? If they have not broken a law nor the golden rule...
As previously stated, I thinkone needs to do something "wrong", and do itvoluntarily, to feel any guilt (there are other factors, too, but I don't see that we need to go into those details right now). That suggests two ways to evade guilt (responsibility) :


1) Show that whatever it isI did wasn't "wrong". Possibly (just possibly), atheism gets an edge here, if you can show that there are fewer things that an atheistconsiders "wrong" (that are actually significant). In any case, it makes a big difference which religion we're comparing it to.


2)Show thatI didn't do it (whatever it isI did that was "wrong") voluntarily, in whole or in part. Here, minimizing your(perceived) freedomis key. I don't think there's anysignificant difference in what either side feelsthey can or can't do :it's a matter of how many natural (strictly unbreakable) laws you feel you are subjected to. In any case, these kinds of laws mean less freedom.


Or it might be that I don't understand what guilt is. Do you thinkreligious people feel guilty for things they did that they felt were "right", or for things they feel they didn't do "voluntarily" ?


Personally, I don't think there's necessarily a difference in the amount of freedom or guilt, generally speaking. It's a matter ofwhich specific religions/denominations we're talking about.
 
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