Out of the loop

I don't know why I'm throwing myself on this grenade, but.......

I'm coming down with a crappy summer cold, and I probably should just crawl back into bed, and keep my ever-loving mouth shut. But I'm not going to - and I'm not going to track down the post of whoever said the Catholic Church believes homosexuality is a sin so I can quote it. Pretend that I did:

The church does not say that being gay is a sin. The church says sex outside of marriage is a sin. Don't matter who with who. Now, gays are SOL because the church won't allow gay marriage (though I do know my particular Catholic church has blessed gay marriages).

There's probably some ignorant priests out there who misinterpret the rules out of their own homophobia. Doesn't make it true.

And lastly, this thread icks me out. I don't know why it's acceptable to tell gay jokes. Would you go back and do the same jokes with race or religion?

But I am a long time supporter of freedom of speech. So, I'll return you to your regularly scheduled thread, and I'll stop reading it, and I'm going to pass over the gay jokes. They hurt my heart.

I did it, I said I wouldn't post again but the truth seemed important here.

LIT, if I may interject my pennies of thought here...

Please stop. You did absolutetly nothing wrong! Do not fall prey to this turmoil.

I know that I have not posted much lately, but that does not mean that I do not know what CSC is all about!

WISYS, LIT said it best when she said that she wished you would have sent her a PM. If something offends or bothers you to the point that you feel the need to make a public statement about it, it needs to be valid. You were out of line with this one. Regardless of what has been said since your initial post, you are the one that needs to apologize, and move on. You brought your hurt feelings on yourself.

You directly hurt LIT with your initial post. She did not even acknowledge you with hers. You took it badly, that's your problem to solve in 'private'. When you bring it into the open, you then get everyone's opinion...like it or not!

There's never any good way to step out of a discussion on homosexuality and/or religion. My beliefs are liberal, non-religious and wholly my own. I go absolutely rabid when anyone suggests that homosexuality is an abomination, aberration, wrong, bad, impure, against a diety or otherwise. I can't stop that and I won't.

There is a large part of me that delights in messing with people's perception of reality - attempting to provoke thought and acceptance where that might not be any. I enjoy exposing someone to a different viewpoint and, failing that, at least to an agree to disagree.
... which is what you explained you were doing yesterday. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a debate, or asking someone to be a little more open-minded about something. We worked through our difference of opinion, and came to an understanding. Hence, the camp chair and band conversation.


I delight in the absurd. I think it is important to use words that are taboo and use them repeatedly - I believe the world needs more open minds and less condemnation of what I see as real and immediate. As Americans, our vocabulary is woefully short of words to describe ourselves as individuals in ways that make us happy and shine with everything inside of us that is unique.

I recognize that this doesn't fit with mainstream and seldom does this bother me. I love humor and I love the humor that is simultaneous grotesque, weird, awkward, painful and wrong. For example, Sam Kinison once said, in a comedic bit about homosexuality, "How can one man look at another man's hairy (backside) and find love?" I laugh every time I hear that. I have a dear, dear friend, a gay man and he will laugh with me and joke and with tears in his eyes will say, "Kirsten, do you think I choose this because it is easy or fun? It is who I /am/."
Exactly. In my experience, dear friends and loved ones, may indeed laugh, but it's with tears in their eyes. Living as a gay or lesbian, is not easy. They didn't choose this life.


WISYS is correct - I was never angry and was talking through my own thoughts.
Thank you for clearing that up.


I did not go further with them because I learned a long time ago that if you really say everything that is on your mind there are penalties and I did not want to feel unwelcome or shunned in a place I love so much. So, it is easier to modify myself than to expect a group to behave in a way that is utterly in line with what I think and believe.

So, where do I or we go from here. I keep trying to step out of this and it isn't working. I enjoy a good debate but this is NOT NOT NOT Completely Stupid Conversation. It is too personal and too close to far too many people. I disagree with many of you but that doesn't color my ability to love or care for you, even if you are heterosexual.

I agree. This was never about one particular poster, only a sensitive subject. I care about all of you so much. I am just upset that this conversation turned into a war on censorship, instead of an opportunity to understand each other a little bit better.

I don't know what to say, I am not angry but I still say you can't just say what you want or need and not have people who have needs and wants that are counter to yours.

Of course not. Creating awareness was my objective.

This is crazy -- and not in that fun spanky way.