divadoc is offline divadoc Post #1  January 19,2009, 12:01pm
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I mentioned in my intro that I read a book called "The Excellent Wife" by Martha Peace. Another good one is "Liberated by Submission" by Bunny Wilson. On the secular side, there is "Being a Woman" by Toni Grant. Books like this really changed the way I looked at relationships....I was always what Toni Grant calls the "Amazon" woman: independent, assertive, a take-charge person. Early on, I specialized in surgery, and was very motivated by power! But then I met my husband....a man of good charachter and integrity, who I could trust and respect. Eventually I had to make some choices...to choose him over my career...even to accept his name, which a lot of professional women don't do.





As time went on and things happened in our lives, we faced birth of one healthy girl, then the death of one twin, birth of the other twin boy as a sick preemie and God's miraculous intervention....then my disability, a miscarriage, recovery from addiction, and other things which brought me closer to God and increased my faith. As I listened to Christian radio sermons and read good books such as the ones I mentioned, (and of course the Bible,) I grew in the realization that God was calling me to allow my husband to be the leader of the family....even though he was unsaved at the time. I knew that God would equip my husband to lead our family if I just trusted him! As long as my husband was not asking me to sin, I could safely trust him for all the major decisions (but the minor ones took some work! Part of me still wanted my own way!)





I trusted in God, who keeps His promises.....and he eventually did save my husband just before he died. It took a leap of faith to let go of control, but I felt I was being obedient to God's will. I redefined my purpose in life: "what I want most is to love God with all my heart, mind, soul and strength....and to love my family more than I love myself. " If I do that, I will always be happy because I have what I want most! We only have the power to do one thing....to decide what we choose to want. (More about that in another topic!) Ultimately, I never had the control anyway.....any illusion of power that I had was given me by God. So I lovingly chose to offer that to the man I had bonded to in the eyes of God.





I think this is the ideal that God had in mind when he said "wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord"....the message of the books i mentioned was that if we faithfully do this, God will equip our husbands to "love your wives just as Christ loved the church" (see Ephesisns 5;22-33). Now, in today's society people just bristle at the thought of a woman submitting to a man! But if we trust God to provide us the right man, the equation works as it's supposed to.





And the best part of all is that God is our forgiving and loving Abba Father! If we haven't lived by these principles, it is never too late to change! And if we made a mistake in our first marriage, I thank God for being a God of second chances!! For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God....that's why He sent His only Son to save us.





Thank you all for letting me share....thank you for this group.....looking forward to sharing so much more.....





Peace and joy.........divadoc
 
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holyghostgirl is offline holyghostgirl Post #2  January 19,2009, 12:33pm
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God bless you and thanks for sharing that. It takes alot of faith to "let go and let God."Somedays it's like being on a roller coaster with no seat belt just trustinggravity to be enough to hold you in place. I wonder about the name thing at times because my father died andhad no sons with his name. I have a brother, but his name is diffrent. I'd like to keep the name going just out of respect. Maybe a hyphen? Right now it takes faith for me to even talk to men. By the time some poor schmo asks me to the altar, I'm sure God will have ironed any remaining wrinkles in me.


Blessings-kim
 
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waltercl is offline waltercl Post #3  January 19,2009, 1:02pm
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Thanks for sharing this. When I get time I'd like to post a teaching I researched about 6 years ago on Biblical submission. I learned some new things. For one thing there is a myth that submission came about as a result of the fall of Adam and Eve. This is not true. Look at 1 Corinthians 11:


1 Corinthians 11:3


3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.


Divine order is present in the Godhead and is compared to the relationship between husband and wife. So we know that the structure of authority and submission was in place long before the fall of Adam and Eve.


Also we know that Jesus came to redeem us from the curse of the Law so if submission were a part of the curse then it would not be taught in the New Testament.


What was the most revelaing to me was a Hebrew word study of the last part of he Genesis 3:16 where God is speaking to Eve.


Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you."


I don't have my notes handy but the Hebrew word that is used for "desire" indicates a power struggle. In other words as a result of the Fall the woman will try to control the man, and the man will try to dominate the woman. Just look at relationships all around you, and you will see this dynamic played out all the time.


What Paul writes about in Ephesians is the exact opposite of what is mentioned in Genesis.


Ephesians 5:22-29



22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.


25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church.


See how this is the very opposite of a power struggle. The husband is to give up the sinful urge to dominate his wife for his own selfish gains and in return take on Responsibility and Love. The wife is to give up the sinful urge to try and control and manipulate her husband and instead take on respect and trust.
 
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holyghostgirl is offline holyghostgirl Post #4  January 19,2009, 1:40pm
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waltercl,439629 wrote :

Thanks for sharing this. When I get time I'd like to post a teaching I researched about 6 years ago on Biblical submission. I learned some new things. For one thing there is a myth that submission came about as a result of the fall of Adam and Eve. This is not true. Look at 1 Corinthians 11:


1 Corinthians 11:3


3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.


Divine order is present in the Godhead and is compared to the relationship between husband and wife. So we know that the structure of authority and submission was in place long before the fall of Adam and Eve.


Also we know that Jesus came to redeem us from the curse of the Law so if submission were a part of the curse then it would not be taught in the New Testament.


What was the most revelaing to me was a Hebrew word study of the last part of he Genesis 3:16 where God is speaking to Eve.


Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you."


I don't have my notes handy but the Hebrew word that is used for "desire" indicates a power struggle. In other words as a result of the Fall the woman will try to control the man, and the man will try to dominate the woman. Just look at relationships all around you, and you will see this dynamic played out all the time.


What Paul writes about in Ephesians is the exact opposite of what is mentioned in Genesis.


Ephesians 5:22-29



22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.


25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church.


See how this is the very opposite of a power struggle. The husband is to give up the sinful urge to dominate his wife for his own selfish gains and in return take on Responsibility and Love. The wife is to give up the sinful urge to try and control and manipulate her husband and instead take on respect and trust.
Wow! this sounds good. I'd like to learn more on this subject before I get serious about someone again. I think the more we know about God's plan for the family, the better choices we'll make when picking a mate. Please post soon! I'm trying to get some singles together for prayer and Bible study, I'd appreciate any good study resources(including your own research)you could suggest.
 
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last12C is offline last12C Post #5  January 19,2009, 2:32pm
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Yes, more, more! I am totally sold on submission because I also experienced the positive benefits ofthe proper understanding of itin my own marriage.
*
I like how Walterreminds us herethateven though the cursewill notbe lifted until the end...
*


Rev 22:3 There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him;
*
Christ has already redeemedus from it...
*



Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"—

I think that is a very important point to understand - for a proper understanding of a lot of things.
*
I think that a lot of people misapply theteaching in Titus 2:11-15 when speaking on this subject.
 
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winn is offline winn Post #6  January 19,2009, 4:03pm

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I agree with everyone's post in this discussion. I grew up with Christian grandparents and parents and saw good examples of marriage all around me which included the benefits of a wife's submission and a husband's love for his wife as Christ loves the church. I expected my husband to lead the home. We worked as equal partners and discussed all major and minor decisions, coming to agreement on most of them but once the discussions were done, I stepped back and allowed my husband to act on the final decision.


In disciplining our children we also discussed ahead of time how we would do that but I made it clear to our kids that Dad had final say on specifics. If John and I did not agree on discipline, I would never confront him in front of the kids. My disagreements would be in private and I would allow John to act without undermining his authority.


Bible reading at the table took a bit to develop however. My husband had grown up in a family where his mother took charge of devotions simply because she was the one with more education and the ability to read English (they were Dutch immigrants). In my family, my father had always taken charge of family devotions so I had preconceived ideas about the man's responsibilities in that department. My husband was not a great reader either, struggling all his life with language, so it took a bit of convincing for him to understand the importance of leading family devotions as the head of the house. He had very little confidence when it came to reading out loud. However, by the end of our marriage, much poractice and encouragement on my part, he took full control of family devotions and knew the importance for a husband to lead the way in all things spiritual. I guess this journey kind of reminded me of what the mother says to her daughter in the movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding"...."The man is the head of the house but the wife is the neck that turn the head."
 
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paulabbc is offline paulabbc Post #7  January 19,2009, 4:33pm
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waltercl,439629 wrote :

Thanks for sharing this. When I get time I'd like to post a teaching I researched about 6 years ago on Biblical submission. I learned some new things. For one thing there is a myth that submission came about as a result of the fall of Adam and Eve. This is not true. Look at 1 Corinthians 11:


1 Corinthians 11:3


3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.


Divine order is present in the Godhead and is compared to the relationship between husband and wife. So we know that the structure of authority and submission was in place long before the fall of Adam and Eve.


Also we know that Jesus came to redeem us from the curse of the Law so if submission were a part of the curse then it would not be taught in the New Testament.


What was the most revelaing to me was a Hebrew word study of the last part of he Genesis 3:16 where God is speaking to Eve.


Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you."


I don't have my notes handy but the Hebrew word that is used for "desire" indicates a power struggle. In other words as a result of the Fall the woman will try to control the man, and the man will try to dominate the woman. Just look at relationships all around you, and you will see this dynamic played out all the time.


What Paul writes about in Ephesians is the exact opposite of what is mentioned in Genesis.


Ephesians 5:22-29



22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.


25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church.


See how this is the very opposite of a power struggle. The husband is to give up the sinful urge to dominate his wife for his own selfish gains and in return take on Responsibility and Love. The wife is to give up the sinful urge to try and control and manipulate her husband and instead take on respect and trust.
I once had someone tell me that submission is learning to duck so God can hit your husband....
 
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paulabbc is offline paulabbc Post #8  January 19,2009, 4:48pm
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winn,439940 wrote :

We worked as equal partners and discussed all major and minor decisions, coming to agreement on most of them but once the discussions were done, I stepped back and allowed my husband to act on the final decision.

My brother in law is a pastor and a missionary. He does a seminar on marriage, and one of the points he makes is about "us" decisions. His contention is that the husband and wife should discuss everything, come to a decision together, an "us" decision, and it is then the husband's responsibilty to be the "public" voice for the decision (the head).


Any husband who doesn't give the help mate God gave him due credit and consideration, and figuring that God brought them together to strengthen each other, is a foolish man.


My son is getting married in March to his best friend of 15 years. I told my son that God fit them together perfectly. Where he is weak, she is strong, and vice versa. I told him that he would be foolish not to respect her areas of strength and thank God that He sent someone to him to help him grow in those areas. And I told her the same thing. (Basically, my son is a type A, all business person that comes off a bit on the cold, unemotional side, and his fiance is warm, loving and sweet, but tends to be a bit impractical and majorly disorganized.) He is the head in the new family, but she is the heart, and one shouldn't make a major decision without taking into consideration the other, for they can't each live on their own.


In His Grip,


Paula
 
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last12C is offline last12C Post #9  January 19,2009, 4:51pm
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paulabbc,440002 wrote :

I once had someone tell me that submission is learning to duck so God can hit your husband....

ROTFLOL!
 
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blessedinNC is offline blessedinNC Post #10  January 19,2009, 5:07pm
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paulabbc,440002 wrote :




I once had someone tell me that submission is learning to duck so God can hit your husband....


[/quote]

You crack me up!
 
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