meri75 is offline meri75 Post #1  June 7,2010, 1:57am
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really wants a double dissolution in 2011!

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I have read quite a lot of opinions here (and elsewhere!) with regard to what the Bible teaches us about divorce and re-marriage.

But I would like to know what your opinions are for this scenario. Suffice it to say that it is not hypothetical and these are people I care greatly for.

The married couple divorce. They were not Christians at the time of their divorce. They have gone their separate ways and formed new relationships. He has since become a Christian and is now wanting to know if he is Biblically allowed to marry a Christian woman? (He has one in mind and no, not me. )

I don't know. There may not be a black and white answer here. I have been thinking about the teaching which says if within a marriage, one becomes a believer and the other wants nothing of it, to let the other person leave the marriage. Is it the same in reverse?
 
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WYskywatcher is offline WYskywatcher Post #2  June 7,2010, 2:40pm
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LOL here at the crickets I hear in this thread. I remember the last thread on this subject in CS. whew!

I only have one thought, actually it's a verse...

Romans 8:1-2 "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death."
 
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notyet is offline notyet Post #3  June 9,2010, 12:00am
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this may or may not help- but i thought i'd share something i'd recently written (slightly edited) about divorce and remarriage. some may disagree. some always will. and yes, i am always painfully aware of jeremiah 17:9. if one is not familiar with that verse, it is worth looking up...
==================================================
"'...what is one to do if he finds himself divorced? obviously, one should work toward reconciliation if at all possible. reconciliation is a ministry of the church.'

Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience. We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us, so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart. If we are out of our mind, it is for the sake of God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again. So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. 2 Corinthians 5:11-21

'and the church's work of reconciliation does not just pertain to "spiritual" matters but bears directly on this subject-'

To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. 1 corinthians 7:10&11

'without a doubt, ideally we should work toward reconciliation- especially since jesus seems to clearly disallow remarriage to any but the original spouse:'

He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her." mark 10:11

'...and...'

I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery. matthew 19:9

'what comes next may very well be dissembling. i don't think so. i think it is struggling with the Word of God. i see it as contending for the faith in my soul while at the same time recognizing the truth found in jeremiah 17:9. and i know that i have had an obsession with that verse for years now. throughout this whole process i have had to assess my motives. and i have had to admit that i do not always know what those motives are. or perhaps i do but have no desire to admit them to myself and others. this makes it sound as if i have more self-doubt than i actually do. in truth- i have very little self-doubt and much certainty. but i truly want to conform myself as much as possible to Jesus Christ. and so i have to take account of this verse. and it has been at the front of my thoughts for years.

'let's return to scripture- this time the KJV. not to "shop" for a translation. but i do like how it reads in the following verses.'

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 timothy 2:15

'i've always liked that word "dividing." it seems to compliment other scripture that refers to God's Word as a sword.'

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. hebrews 4:12

'the Bible is not a blunt instrument. it is razor sharp. God says what he means and means what he says. and often what is being said must be teased out. almost with a surgeons precision. and before i creep forward, i want to reflect briefly on one other dearly held verse. let us turn for a moment to the amplified bible.'

I will worship toward Your holy temple and praise Your name for Your loving-kindness and for Your truth and faithfulness; for You have exalted above all else Your name and Your word and You have magnified Your word above all Your name! psalm 138:2.

'God values his Word even above his name. this next may sound strange but bear with me. we almost have to love the Word of God more than we love God himself. because we cannot know God apart from his Word. and here you can take Word as either the Written Word (Bible) or the Living Word (Christ). we cannot come to him without it. (this echos my thread- Bible as Idol). so we had better know what He says. and we had better know what He means when He says it. so, let me attempt to correctly divide the Word of Truth.'

He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife..." mark 10:11
I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife... matthew 19:9

‘who is the one instigating the divorce? does it make a difference? i think so. while sin is sin and none is better or worse than another, there is the principle in the Bible that each is responsible for his own sin. i am not responsible for yours. and you are not responsible for mine.'

The word of the LORD came to me: "What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel:
" 'The fathers eat sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge'?
"As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel. For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son—both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will die." ezekiel 18:1-4

'the soul that sins is the one that will give account. i will not quote all of matthew 25:31-46 but just enough to bring it to mind...'
==================================================
(end part I- post split for length)
 
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notyet is offline notyet Post #4  June 9,2010, 12:00am
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part II- post edited for length...
==================================================
When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
"Then the King will say to those on his right...

"Then he will say to those on his left...
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

'and lets remember also...'

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. revelation 20:11-15'to gather things together for a minute- no, the Bible does not allow for divorce. it is sin just like any other. but i did not divorce my wife. she divorced me. i fought for reconciliation up to the divorce but was continually rebuffed. should i have continued? perhaps. did i after the divorce? no. and i may be faulted for that.

'one question that may come up-, "is my ex-spouse a believer?" to paraphrase my favorite answer- who knows?. does it matter? yes- very much. but first let me digress again.'

Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. romans 14:4

'i admit that this verse is slightly out of context. but i think the principle still applies. one never knows the heart of another. only God does. and yes, i've excluded the ex from that last sentence based on that very important verse- jeremiah 17:9. one's ex may not know his/her own heart. but you may know how they have acted. and they may have acted in a very unchristlike manner. of course, not being perfect, one probably has not acted christlike at times either. but i will resort to this: if one did not seek the divorce and/or reached out even as the other remained obstinate in their refusal to reconcile, i would appeal to paul.’

But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 1 corinthians 7:15

'i am responsible for my sin. and there is a lot of it. but i am not responsible for my ex's. and i do not know her heart.'

The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart. 1 samuel 16:7

'and one cannot see the heart of another. one can only judge actions. and even though many like to quote matthew 7:5 at this point, even matthew 7:5 states that we are competent to judge once we have removed the plank from our own eye. and paul states it even more clearly.'

Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 1 corinthians 6:2&3

'expanding this passage reveals that it is a shame on the church when we appeal to secular authority instead of the wisdom of the Body of Christ. it is as if, that when one takes the route to civil court and the church refuses to intervene, they speak for themselves- condemning themselves; "we am not christians and we are not the church."

'so one is left to judge others by their actions.

'therefore no- i do believe that we are bound. if the ex has continually acted like an unbeliever, one is not bound.'

But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man... is not bound in such circumstances.... 1 corinthians 7:15”
=============================================
i hope the above helps!
Last edited by notyet; June 9,2010 at 11:28am. Reason: tried to clean it up a little more...
 
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notyet is offline notyet Post #5  June 9,2010, 12:01am
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...
Last edited by notyet; June 9,2010 at 12:03am. Reason: double post! but i may chime in again...
 
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WYskywatcher is offline WYskywatcher Post #6  June 9,2010, 7:57am
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Thanks for that post notyet. I would have given it 5 stars if I could have . I admire your commitment to the Word and dedication to "rightly divide" it. My mind is so bogged down these days, I do not have the mental tenacity to study the Word the way I love to. I trust the Lord's grace is sufficient during this season of my life. Anyway, I say all of that to affirm the CS group, you and the other posters here who take the time to study and write such thoughtful posts. They are a blessing to me while my mind is overwhelmed with information-overload from my other studies.

Back on topic now.....

The verses in the Bible pertaining to divorce are what kept me in an emotionally abusive marriage for years, even for three years after there was known adultery, which according to some is "Biblical grounds for divorce." The Bible does not directly address the issue of divorce for women who are in emotionally abusive situations with "believers." The road to freedom from condemnation for me came through much study and meditation on the Word and absolute trust in His sovereignty. God led me to many other verses, many other truths in His Word to give me the affirmation I needed to walk this path He had laid out before me.

Although I wasn’t the one who abandoned the ten year marriage, I was the one who filed for divorce after three years of trying to reconcile. My ex likes to remind me that I am the one who “filed for divorce,” though he did not contest it in court-- a typical response from an emotional abuser. I suppose an argument could certainly be made that my ex is not a "believer" based on the absence of "fruit" in his life. But even then, the scripture doesn't address where that leaves me because I am a woman. It seems I am condemned an adulteress if I re-marry because I am the one who “dismissed” my husband. (My ex has already re-married and divorced again since our divorce five years ago.)

I mention all of those details not to try and validate my divorce or justify remarriage if it is in my future because I don’t believe I have to. Over and over again in scripture, God proves Himself to be a God of second chances. He is Sovereign. He is greater than our human weakness and capable of redeeming every wrong choice, mistake or intentional blunder we make on this journey of life. His grace is sufficient.

“But seek [aim at and strive after] first of all His kingdom and His righteousness [His way of doing and being right], and then all these things taken together will be given you besides.” (Matthew 6:33)
Last edited by WYskywatcher2; June 9,2010 at 2:25pm. Reason: clarity
 
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notyet is offline notyet Post #7  June 9,2010, 9:05am
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WYskywatcher wrote :
...I mention all of those details not to try and validate my divorce or justify remarriage...
somethings i am dogmatic about. divorce and remarriage is not one of them. each must work out their own understanding of scripture.

my posts above are my own understanding after what i think was careful study. but i am not an infallible being who speaks on behalf of god. and i am not a prophet. if any find the above posts hurtful- i hope they gloss over them.

but i do believe we each must wrestle with scripture and attempt to conform ourselves as much as possible to what is taught in the Word.

and i am confident the He has great things in store for you. and for all of us.
 
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ForTheWin is offline ForTheWin Post #8  June 9,2010, 9:16am

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My mom, a Christian, is presently on marriage number three, so whatever it is the Bible says it hasn't stopped her from remarrying. All three of her husbands including my dad are Christian so it doesn't seem to be a big deal with them either. She was married in churches all three times. My dad also remarried and as far as I know they both go to church each Sunday. I think most Christians don't spend much time worrying over what was said in the bible. They just get on with their lives and let God figure it all out.
 
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notyet is offline notyet Post #9  June 9,2010, 9:54am
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ForTheWin wrote :
...I think most Christians don't spend much time worrying over what was said in the bible. They just get on with their lives and let God figure it all out.
you are right. but i find that attitude distressing.
 
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Lcanada is offline Lcanada Post #10  June 9,2010, 10:51am
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Thanks to notyet for some very focussed posts. We hope you have more to say...

When we each decide what we believe , we should go back to Scripture
not just go by what we feel or what we see others are doing.

Important distinctions I want to point out here Although I have never
been married, but have recently been asked to counsel friends as they
consider divorce and dating... notyet - mind if I quote you ?

I am one course short of a minor in pyschology, but I'm just trying to
post here for discussion and consideration.. I'm not trying to express
an opinion or value - but hope each can "rightly divide" and study
Scripture in making their choices.

1) Maybe the one spouse is not interested in restoration of the marriage and
has chosen to leave. Maybe they have chosen to walk away from their
faith, maybe not. There might not be an option of working it out in
Biblical reconcilation. Maybe one spouse has already left to be joined
to another partner. No one can make anyone stay.

2) What is the spirit of reading Scripture ? If one spouse is leaving
and peoplee are imploring the other spouse to remain single
or stay in a marriage (on paper) regardless of what the other does
may not be reading the 2nd half of many Scriptures.. "if the unbelieving
spouse chooses to leave- let them" "except for unfaithfullness"

I'm just saying here read Scripture in context and read all the verses
not just fragments.

3) what are we calling marriage and divorce... ?

ie - is living common law (sharing household expenses and having sex
as if you are a married couple) still seen as marriage joined to another.

Even if the paperwork isn't filed, is the one person already committed
and thus would they be permitted to break up the new post relationship partner and go back to the original partner

ie- is separation considered divorce ? (spiritually, not legally for separation
of assets - let's assume the relationship is les sthan 2 years for common law
to be recognized in division of property)


Maybe someone else wants to define adultery ?
 
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