Christianity Is A Relationship With Jesus Not A Religion?


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deistdreamer is offline deistdreamer Post #1  May 23,2010, 9:26am
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I so often hear well meaning Christians proclaim that Christianity is not a religion but rather a relationship with Jesus.

But these same Christians barely finishing making the above statement when they tell you how to read the Bible, how to be saved, what to believe, what parts of what creedal formula to follow, etc, etc, etc. But all of this of course is the stuff of religion not relationship.

If Christianity is a relationship with Jesus and not a religion then each of our relationships with Jesus is the primary source of truth for us and the primary way we decide to practice being a Christian.

No one could tell us (me) this is what you must believe or do or live like if you want to be a Christian. It is my relationship with Jesus and not your relationship with him so you would have no more business telling me how to relate to Jesus than I would have telling you how to relate to your spouse or children.

I suspect what most Christians want is: both. They want to claim Christianity is a relationship with Jesus and Christianity is a religion with rules and regulations and creeds and belief statements. But this is an illogical, irrational, thoughtless hope.

It is either relationship or religion: not both and there are some very serious implications in terms of which one you choose.

Thoughts?
 
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curious_girl is offline curious_girl Post #2  May 23,2010, 9:38am
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DD, awesome post.

I disagree though, that it can't be a bit of both. I have a relationship with God. I believe that in order to have this relationship and to deepen it that I must believe that He sent his son, Jesus, to die for us so that we have a chance to make it to heaven. I believe that God resurrected him. Did I not believe these things, I would not be a Christian.

Which begs the question....can you love Jesus, and believe in him, and not be a Christian?

Like some others, I don't believe the Bible is direct from God how to. I believe Hell is actually your soul dying, not eternal torment. I could keep going with how my religious beliefs differ from the majority.

And yet I love God. I believe in Him. And I try to do my best to be the person I believe He wants me to be.
 
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deistdreamer is offline deistdreamer Post #3  May 23,2010, 9:55am
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curious_girl wrote :
DD, awesome post.

I disagree though, that it can't be a bit of both. I have a relationship with God. I believe that in order to have this relationship and to deepen it that I must believe that He sent his son, Jesus, to die for us so that we have a chance to make it to heaven. I believe that God resurrected him. Did I not believe these things, I would not be a Christian.

Which begs the question....can you love Jesus, and believe in him, and not be a Christian?

Like some others, I don't believe the Bible is direct from God how to. I believe Hell is actually your soul dying, not eternal torment. I could keep going with how my religious beliefs differ from the majority.

And yet I love God. I believe in Him. And I try to do my best to be the person I believe He wants me to be.

I wonder though is it your relationship with Jesus that shaped your religious views or is it your religious beliefs that shaped your relationship with Jesus?

Some of your beliefs are unorthodox and there would be some Christians who would say your beliefs somehow make you not a Christian. But to do this these people would have to give primacy to religion not a personal relationship with Jesus.

No one has the right to say to you, for example, you cannot believe what you believe and be a Christian if that is they claim Christianity is not a religion but a relationship.

If relationship is primary in Christianity then you CG have the right to believe what you choose about hell, the bible, salvation, even the connection between God and Jesus, or why he had to die, etc.

This would truly make each of us one of the Royal Priesthood of believer. Each of us a sovereign follower of Jesus.

Thanks for responding and even disagreeing with me.
 
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curious_girl is offline curious_girl Post #4  May 23,2010, 10:50am
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As you know, I was raised in the church. A strict (but not old school strict) Pentecostal Church.

But it was not until I left the church, and sought God for myself, that I truly developed a relationship with Him. My belief that Hell is the death of a soul, is actually based on the mis translation of the word Hell, which actually meant death, but now is read as eternal torment. I cannot imagine a loving God requiring eternal torment for His children, even the ones who disappoint Him. And I imagine that not existing would be the most horrid eventuality He, our creator, could give us. I struggled with "eternal torment" as a punishment if we failed in the least as humans, and it was a preacher who explained to me his beliefs, and since it makes sense to me, it became my belief.

But I'm not asking for anyone to agree with me. Any are certainly welcome to state their own opinions and beliefs.

So the question, which came first, my religion or my relationship....my "religion" came first. But it is my relationship with Him which draws me to God, and which I would be utterly lost without.

Does that answer it? I'm not sure I'm conveying what I want to.

(I'm "knee deep" in a case study and taking a break from it, so my brain may be a bit muddled)
 
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ThomasM is offline ThomasM Post #5  May 23,2010, 10:56am
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When someone talks about a personal relationship with God or with Jesus and implies or directly says that they are talking to God or to Jesus, then I wonder if it is perhaps the person having a dialogue with himself or herself. One way of saying it is that our mind talks to us. Discerning a quiet still voice of guidance from our own mind-talk can be tricky business.
Last edited by ThomasM; May 23,2010 at 11:04am.
 
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deistdreamer is offline deistdreamer Post #6  May 23,2010, 1:09pm
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curious_girl wrote :
But I'm not asking for anyone to agree with me. Any are certainly welcome to state their own opinions and beliefs.

This definitely puts you in my opinion in the relationship and not religion duality as those who are religious tend to take the rules and right believing and conformity pretty seriously.


So the question, which came first, my religion or my relationship....my "religion" came first. But it is my relationship with Him which draws me to God, and which I would be utterly lost without.

Again, it looks to me like relationship not religion is your primary path to God.

Does that answer it? I'm not sure I'm conveying what I want to.

You've done a good job in my opinion.

(I'm "knee deep" in a case study and taking a break from it, so my brain may be a bit muddled)
I know the feeling....all too well!!!
 
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deistdreamer is offline deistdreamer Post #7  May 23,2010, 1:19pm
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[QUOTE=ThomasM;988550]When someone talks about a personal relationship with God or with Jesus and implies or directly says that they are talking to God or to Jesus, then I wonder if it is perhaps the person having a dialogue with himself or herself. One way of saying it is that our mind talks to us. Discerning a quiet still voice of guidance from our own mind-talk can be tricky business.
 
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lindseyk is offline lindseyk Post #8  May 23,2010, 2:34pm

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I believe that Christianity is a relationship with Jesus obtained by accepting the gift of His grace offered to me. Offering and accepting are actions - they are inviting and responsive. For me, it is not merely intellectual assent to a set of prescribed rules. It is not merely belief - it is living, as deistdreamer posted, the Jesus Way. How did Jesus live? How did He interact with people? Who were His friends? What did He emphasize?

These are the things I need to imitate and be aware of in my own life. If my walk with God simply becomes about following rules or nitpicking what other people do, my faith and my relationship has lost its life. If I stop praying, I have effectively cut off communication with God. Jesus often exhorted people to pray. He prayed Himself constantly and communicated with His Father. He made it clear that His Holy Spirit would come and indwell us and intervene on our behalf with the Father. The disciples asked Jesus to teach them to pray. Prayer is our conduit for communication with God. We can talk to Him. In faxct, He invites us to commune with Him, to present our requests and more. The Psalms are full of prayers - of people talking to God. I know that my faith, belief, and relationship grow stagnant when I stop praying and when I stop doing things the way Jesus would have me do it. My relationship wanes when I stop serving others. Jesus said that when we help others and care for them, we are loving and caring for no other than Him (Mt. 25: 35-46). As I personally understand it, our relationships with other people are a reflection of our relationship with Him.

I think that love is in the Bible for a reason. The Bible says God is love. I John 4:16 says, God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God abides him. That sounds like a relationship. Love is an emotion. An idea cannot love. A prescribed set of rules cannot love. An idea cannot abide with anyone. God abides with us, according to I John. For me, that God is love means that a relationship is in play. A relationship is a multi-dimensional thing. It requires more than a mental exercise, but it isn't just about feelings either. It is a living, breathing thing. It calls for communication. It requires action. It is much more exciting than just following rules. It is difficult sometimes. It hurts. There's joy, pain, laughter - all of it.

I do believe that Jesus requires certain things of us if we choose to follow Him and live His way, but faith cannot be reduced to mere rules, particularly if our interaction with others is a reflection of how we are following Jesus and His teachings.
 
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notyet is offline notyet Post #9  May 23,2010, 3:11pm
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i really wanted to start a thread on this but do not now want to steal DD's thunder.

If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless. Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. james 1:26-27

the above was the text from the service at the church we attended this morning.

now, to define a couple of terms...

religion- a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices from merriam-webster on-line

relationship- kinship (see above)

i would say that those of us who are christians do have a relationship with god. but we also practice a religion. we are related to god. first- he created us. we are his children. but secondly, he has adopted us us his own.

i believe the latter is taught several places in the Bible. but i am partial to the verse below...

You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. galatians 3:26-29

in regard to religion, i do like to remember what jesus said in matthew...

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'" matthew 25:34-40


to those of us who claim to have faith in christ and are born again, i would ask, have you feed the hungry lately? clothed the naked? visited those in prison? cared for the widow and the orphan? how are you doing on controlling your tongue?


james continues in his epistle,

What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. james 2:14-26

i hope we all read the words above and did not just skim them because we think we know them

if your belief is that at the end of time/life you will met christ and he greets you before you enter heaven and he asks you, what have you done for me? what will your answer be?

?
Last edited by notyet; May 23,2010 at 3:14pm. Reason: i don't think we can have the relatinship without the religion. it needs to be both.
 
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deistdreamer is offline deistdreamer Post #10  May 23,2010, 3:58pm
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Notyet,

You have touched here on one of the mega themes of Scripture: the tension between faith and works, ceremony and mercy, priests and prophets.

I think we are saved by the grace of God. This is a totally free, unconditional, unearned gift of the Creator just like the gift of life I presently enjoy.

I think we are called to believe--loyally practice--on Jesus the Christ. We are to practice being on the Way, the Truth, the Life of Jesus. We do this by doing as the passage you quoted from Mathew teaches, by being good neighbors. I think how we live and what we do with our lives has very serious consequences as taught by Jesus in the parable you quoted.

I think the power of Spirit--the relationship with God--is a gift from the Creator to the created who align themselves with Her purpose (I get tired of all the male images of God who transcends gender). It gives the strength, the mind, the willingness, the spirit to love God--seek out her will--and each other with all we have.

What will I say when I meet Christ at the end of my life: forgive me.
 
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