dwreese182 is offline dwreese182 Post #1  January 30,2010, 7:00am
dwreese182's Avatar

Pag-ibig ng isla

Veteran

Joined: Oct 2008

Afghanistan

Posts: 2,215

See profile

Is it more logical to be a Christian? Is religion the natural choice of a smart person familiar with more of the evidence? Not according to a broad consensus of studies on IQ and religiosity. These studies have consistently found that the lower the IQ score, the more likely a person is to be religious.

To place these studies in perspective, it is helpful to know the general religious attitudes of Americans today. According to a February 1995 Gallup poll, 96 percent of all Americans believe in God, and 88 percent affirm the importance of religion. However, the degree of religiosity within this group varies considerably. Only 35 percent can be classified as "religious," using a definition that requires them to consider religion important and attend religious services at least once a week. And a March 1994 Gallup poll found that only 20 percent of all Americans belong to that politically active group known as "Christian conservatives."

The following is a review of several studies of IQ and religiosity, paraphrased and summarized from Burnham Beckwith's article, "The Effect of Intelligence on Religious Faith," Free Inquiry, Spring 1986: (1)

STUDIES OF STUDENTS
1. Thomas Howells, 1927
Study of 461 students showed religiously conservative students "are, in general, relatively inferior in intellectual ability."

2. Hilding Carlsojn, 1933
Study of 215 students showed that "there is a tendency for the more intelligent undergraduate to be sympathetic toward… atheism."

3. Abraham Franzblau, 1934
Confirming Howells and Carlson, tested 354 Jewish children, aged 10-16. Found a negative correlation between religiosity and IQ as measured by the Terman intelligence test.

4. Thomas Symington, 1935
Tested 400 young people in colleges and church groups. He reported, "There is a constant positive relation in all the groups between liberal religious thinking and mental ability… There is also a constant positive relation between liberal scores and intelligence…"

5. Vernon Jones, 1938
Tested 381 students, concluding "a slight tendency for intelligence and liberal attitudes to go together."

6. A. R. Gilliland, 1940
At variance with all other studies, found "little or no relationship between intelligence and attitude toward god."

7. Donald Gragg, 1942
Reported an inverse correlation between 100 ACE freshman test scores and Thurstone "reality of god" scores.

8. Brown and Love, 1951
At the University of Denver, tested 613 male and female students. The mean test scores of non-believers was 119 points, and for believers it was 100. The non-believers ranked in the 80th percentile, and believers in the 50th. Their findings "strongly corroborate those of Howells."

9. Michael Argyle, 1958
Concluded that "although intelligent children grasp religious concepts earlier, they are also the first to doubt the truth of religion, and intelligent students are much less likely to accept orthodox beliefs."

10. Jeffrey Hadden, 1963
Found no correlation between intelligence and grades. This was an anomalous finding, since GPA corresponds closely with intelligence. Other factors may have influenced the results at the University of Wisconsin.

11. Young, Dustin and Holtzman, 1966
Average religiosity decreased as GPA rose.

12. James Trent, 1967
Polled 1400 college seniors. Found little difference, but high-ability students in his sample group were over-represented.

13. C. Plant and E. Minium, 1967
The more intelligent students were less religious, both before entering college and after 2 years of college.

14. Robert Wuthnow, 1978
Of 532 students, 37 percent of Christians, 58 percent of apostates, and 53 percent of non-religious scored above average on SATs.

15. Hastings and Hoge, 1967, 1974
Polled 200 college students and found no significant correlations.

16. Norman Poythress, 1975
Mean SATs for strongly antireligious (1148), moderately anti-religious (1119), slightly antireligious (1108), and religious (1022).

17. Wiebe and Fleck, 1980
Studied 158 male and female Canadian university students. They reported "nonreligious S's tended to be strongly intelligent" and "more intelligent than religious S's."

STUDENT BODY COMPARISONS

1. Rose Goldsen, 1952
Percentage of students who believe in a divine god: Harvard 30; UCLA 32; Dartmouth 35; Yale 36; Cornell 42; Wayne 43; Weslyan 43; Michigan 45; Fisk 60; Texas 62; North Carolina 68.

2. National Review Study, 1970
Percentage of students who believe in a Spirit or Divine God: Reed 15; Brandeis 25; Sarah Lawrence 28; Williams 36; Stanford 41; Boston U. 41; Yale 42; Howard 47; Indiana 57; Davidson 59; S. Carolina 65; Marquette 77.

3. Caplovitz and Sherrow, 1977
Apostasy rates rose continuously from 5 percent in "low" ranked schools to 17 percent in "high" ranked schools.

4. Niemi, Ross, and Alexander, 1978
In elite schools, organized religion was judged important by only 26 percent of their students, compared with 44 percent of all students.

STUDIES OF VERY-HIGH IQ GROUPS

1. Terman, 1959
Studied group with IQ's over 140. Of men, 10 percent held strong religious belief, of women 18 percent. Sixty-two percent of men and 57 percent of women claimed "little religious inclination" while 28 percent of the men and 23 percent of the women claimed it was "not at all important."

2. Warren and Heist, 1960
Found no differences among National Merit Scholars. Results may have been effected by the fact that NM scholars are not selected on the basis of intelligence or grades alone, but also on "leadership" and such like.

3. Southern and Plant, 1968
Studied 42 male and 30 female members of Mensa. Mensa members were much less religious in belief than the typical American college alumnus or adult.

STUDIES Of SCIENTISTS

1. William S. Ament, 1927
C. C. Little, president of the University of Michigan, checked persons listed in Who's Who in America: "Unitarians, Episcopalians, Congregationalists, Universalists, and Presbyterians [who are less religious] are… far more numerous in Who's Who than would be expected on the basis of the population which they form. Baptists, Methodists, and Catholics are distinctly less numerous."

Ament confirmed Little's conclusion. He noted that Unitarians, the least religious, were more than 40 times as numerous in Who's Who as in the U.S. population.

2. Lehman and Witty, 1931
Identified 1189 scientists found in both Who's Who (1927) and American Men of Science (1927). Only 25 percent of those listed in the latter and 50 percent of those in the former reported their religious denomination, despite the specific request to do so, under the heading of "religious denomination (if any)." Well over 90 percent of the general population claims religious affiliation. The figure of 25 percent suggests far less religiosity among scientists.

Unitarians were 81.4 times as numerous among eminent scientists as non-Unitarians.

3. Kelley and Fisk, 1951
Found a negative (-.39) correlation between the strength of religious values and research competence. [How these were measured is unknown.]

4. Ann Roe, 1953
Interviewed 64 "eminent scientists, nearly all members of the prestigious National Academy of Sciences or the American Philosophical Society. She reported that, while nearly all of them had religious parents and had attended Sunday school, 'now only three of these men are seriously active in church. A few others attend upon occasion, or even give some financial support to a church which they do not attend… All the others have long since dismissed religion as any guide to them, and the church plays no part in their lives… A few are militantly atheistic, but most are just not interested.'"

5. Francis Bello, 1954
Interviewed or questionnaired 107 nonindustrial scientists under the age of 40 judged by senior colleagues to be outstanding. Of the 87 responses, 45 percent claimed to be "agnostic or atheistic" and an additional 22 percent claimed no religious affiliation. For 20 most eminent, "the proportion who are now a-religious is considerably higher than in the entire survey group."

6. Jack Chambers, 1964
Questionnaired 740 US psychologists and chemists. He reported, "The highly creative men… significantly more often show either no preference for a particular religion or little or no interest in religion." Found that the most eminent psychologists showed 40 percent no preference, 16 percent for the most eminent chemists.

7. Vaughan, Smith, and Sjoberg, 1965
Polled 850 US physicists, zoologists, chemical engineers, and geologists listed in American Men of Science (1955) on church membership, and attendance patterns, and belief in afterlife. Of the 642 replies, 38.5 percent did not believe in an afterlife, whereas 31.8 percent did. Belief in immortality was less common among major university staff than among those employed by business, government, or minor universities. The Gallup poll taken about this time showed that two-thirds of the U.S. population believed in an afterlife, so scientists were far less religious than the typical adult.

Conclusion

Figure it out yourself.
 
  Reply With Quote
dwreese182 is offline dwreese182 Post #2  January 30,2010, 7:01am
dwreese182's Avatar

Pag-ibig ng isla

Veteran

Joined: Oct 2008

Afghanistan

Posts: 2,215

See profile

Notyet asked me to do it!!!!!
 
  Reply With Quote
notyet is offline notyet Post #3  January 30,2010, 7:06am
notyet's Avatar

Power Poster

Joined: Nov 2008

Posts: 5,276

See profile

dwreese182 wrote :
Notyet asked me to do it!!!!!
yes i did and am not afraid to address this here.

i saw a list very similar to this last night on an old message board. i believe the posts were dated about 10 years ago- which does not make the posts invalid. BUT, do we have the studies themselves to pick apart? or just the list you have given us?

i thought you were going to post links to specific studies. and if you do, and i hope you do, could we please deal with them one at a time?

just to keep it a little orderly?

thanks!
 
  Reply With Quote
dwreese182 is offline dwreese182 Post #4  January 30,2010, 7:11am
dwreese182's Avatar

Pag-ibig ng isla

Veteran

Joined: Oct 2008

Afghanistan

Posts: 2,215

See profile

I also have another question.......since IQ can be influenced by environmental factors such as a poverty and low educational standards; wouldn't it be safe to assume that going back several thousand years the average IQ would have been much much lower if tested by today's standards? So a professor who has an IQ of 150 today, say about 2000 years ago, probably would have had an IQ of say, 100 at best? That would probably put the average person at a level way below "average" in today's world. Probably to a level of pre-teen IQ scores (without the child multiple added in).

Children are quite gullible.........
 
  Reply With Quote
coeuri is offline coeuri Post #5  January 30,2010, 7:12am
coeuri's Avatar

life is an interesting journey

Virtuoso

Joined: Jul 2008

home

Posts: 2,886

See profile

Reese, To have any intelligent discussion, we need to define terms and within these studies there seems to be a very narrow perspective of intelligence so please define the term "intelligence" for us as you understand it from these studies. Also define "religiousity" for us since the studies seem to also have a narrow view as to what that means.
 
  Reply With Quote
notyet is offline notyet Post #6  January 30,2010, 7:22am
notyet's Avatar

Power Poster

Joined: Nov 2008

Posts: 5,276

See profile

quoting from the other thread but responding here...
dwreese182 wrote :
...Just please notice that I said religion, not Christian...
duly noted...
dwreese182 wrote :
...Just a little FYI, were you aware that the US is tied at 19th for the average IQ with an average IQ of 98? Australia, France, Denmark, Norway and ..........Mongolia, are tied at 19th with the US. Hong Kong being #1 (average 107)...
you are aware, of course, that the average IQ score is 100. 100 defines average. and while i am no psychologist, i believe that the range of 95 to 105 is accepted as average intelligence
dwreese182 wrote :
...Of course, IQ testing can always be debated.
yes it can. and i am thinking that is next.
 
  Reply With Quote
dwreese182 is offline dwreese182 Post #7  January 30,2010, 7:24am
dwreese182's Avatar

Pag-ibig ng isla

Veteran

Joined: Oct 2008

Afghanistan

Posts: 2,215

See profile

notyet wrote :
yes i did and am not afraid to address this here.

i saw a list very similar to this last night on an old message board. i believe the posts were dated about 10 years ago- which does not make the posts invalid. BUT, do we have the studies themselves to pick apart? or just the list you have given us?

i thought you were going to post links to specific studies. and if you do, and i hope you do, could we please deal with them one at a time?

just to keep it a little orderly?

thanks!
I was aware that the studies were quite old....the dates are on them; but I would argue, are the findings in the Stanford Prison Experiments of 1971, the Little Albert Experiment of 1920 or Stanley Milgram's Obedience Studies of 1974 any less useful because they are several decades old? Human nature is human nature.

I will post some newer ones later....it's getting towards my bedtime. Night night.
 
  Reply With Quote
coeuri is offline coeuri Post #8  January 30,2010, 7:25am
coeuri's Avatar

life is an interesting journey

Virtuoso

Joined: Jul 2008

home

Posts: 2,886

See profile

And some other questions ...Imagine ourselves in the days of slavery or apartheid when a person with another skin tone or nationality was not even allowed to attend places of education or even aspire to the places deemed those of higher learning ......

Is "intelligence" as measured in some of these studies then a construction of those deemed intelligent in the society or a real measure of what is within a person?

Would these figures change if the testers also looked at places of higher learning specifically tied to certain faith groups in developing their data?

Which studies stand out as outside the general norm?

How might these studies bring up new questions that need to be considered in developing a better understanding of the subject?

I am sure that there are many more questions I haven't even learned to ask yet.

Be careful that you know who is defining the terms, how the question is being asked, what restrictions have been placed on the pool of subjects in the study, as well as how the results has been measured and extrapolated when making any assumptions from results like these.
Last edited by coeuri; January 30,2010 at 7:33am.
 
  Reply With Quote
notyet is offline notyet Post #9  January 30,2010, 7:29am
notyet's Avatar

Power Poster

Joined: Nov 2008

Posts: 5,276

See profile

dwreese182 wrote :
I was aware that the studies were quite old....the dates are on them; but I would argue, are the findings in the Stanford Prison Experiments of 1971, the Little Albert Experiment of 1920 or Stanley Milgram's Obedience Studies of 1974 any less useful because they are several decades old? Human nature is human nature.

I will post some newer ones later....it's getting towards my bedtime. Night night.
i am not looking for newer studies, nesaccarily. what i would like is a link to a study- any study- where we can see methodology and the like.

i am not discounting what you have posted just because the information is old. i just want to see the data.

and stay safe. i had not noticed where you were at until your comment about going to bed. then i thought, "where is he? he must stay up all night!"

HA! ignorant me. i do not envy you at all. still, my prayers are with you.

peace.
Last edited by notyet; January 30,2010 at 7:34am.
 
  Reply With Quote
dwreese182 is offline dwreese182 Post #10  January 30,2010, 7:34am
dwreese182's Avatar

Pag-ibig ng isla

Veteran

Joined: Oct 2008

Afghanistan

Posts: 2,215

See profile

coeuri wrote :
please define the term "intelligence" for us
intelligence: the ability to comprehend; to understand and profit from experience


coeuri wrote :
define "religiousity" for us.
religiosity: a comprehensive sociological term used to refer to the numerous aspects of religious activity, dedication, and belief (religious doctrine).
 
  Reply With Quote
Reply


« Because it's time to do our taxes... | Christian Singles | 52 and dating again »
Topic Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new topics
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Topics
Topic Topic Starter Board Replies Last Post
Misleading Religion in Profile kwilson Using eHarmony 9 May 23,2010 9:17pm
Would you convert to a new religion for love? eHA_Admin_Lori Religion & Spirituality 75 May 17,2010 10:29pm
A respectful discussion regarding religion. justme27 Religion & Spirituality 4 February 20,2010 10:38am
What Religion Are You, Really? Wonderwoman402 Religion & Spirituality 41 October 21,2009 8:36pm
Asking about religion. Thisonegoesto11 Dating 15 August 26,2009 6:31am

Looking for a Great Relationship?

Get started now. Fill out this form and take the questionnaire to receive your matches.

First Name:

I'm a:
seeking

Postal Code:

Country:

Email:

Confirm Email:

Password:


How did you hear about us?


Latest on our Dating Advice Discussion Boards

“ Excellent, thank you. I think I will leave out the first part, I think it is unnecessary information to give him. I'm not interested in putting myself out there like that and it might be a little ... ” –  generallyyou

Join the “Ending a friendship” discussion

“Alfred Hitchcock - 18 Steven Spielberg - 62 *notice what?” –  dmi

Join the “War of the Directors” discussion

“ I would be "certain people" :P The issue isn't a deal-breaker, but a very strong factor preference-wise, for me.” –  ThePriestess

Join the “How much does race play in your dating someone?” discussion

“Love Texas Hold'em!.. I'm thinking of trying another tournament this summer...not sure yet though.. Never entered a tournament before, outside of online ones. Personally I prefer to play with ... ” –  Freezepop

Join the “Favorite Card Game” discussion

“Make that 3! I also had a crush on Donny Osmond. I think I still have a record or two of his. Suzie ” –  legend29

Join the “Robin Gibbs Dead at 62...How Deep is Your Love?” discussion

“Oh, my revised profile can be seen in the forum in the section where you can ask for a profile review. Suzanne” –  SuzanneScorpio

Join the “Photo Review” discussion

“Just remember, everything that you are feeling and/or are capable of he is as well. If he wanted to reach you, he could. Right now he knows that you are hurting, and that this is not what you ... ” –  lynntlb78

Join the “Can I wait and move on at the same time?” discussion

“ Yohio. And the shortened form (Anya) is nice too.” –  ThePriestess

Join the “Where is Becky?!?” discussion



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 7:38am.

Discussion Boards Archive

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0