kevin76 is offline kevin76 Post #1  October 23,2009, 3:33pm
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Luke 6
43"No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. 44Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. 45The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.

Know them by their fruit! Good advice for many situations. It applies to dating, to message boards, to religious people and non-religious people. We cannot see anybody's heart, or read their intentions.
On dates everyone wants to present themselves in the best light possible. On message boards everyone wants to be intelligent and well-read and always has the best intentions. It's easy to claim to be a Christian, but does claiming it make it so? It's easy to claim good intentions, but do good intentions (even if a person really has them) erase the results of the actions?
We are called to be kind and forgiving, but we are not called to be blind and foolish - we are told to be wise, and aware of the truth that shows through a person's words and actions.
Matthew 10
16 I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.
What does that look like in our daily lives?
If I'm dating someone who says they are a Christian, yet they spend their weekends drunk and rowdy, or always pick fights with people around them, or are consistently rude and hateful to others - know them by their fruit.
If someone on this message board claims to be a Christian, or an innocent questioner seeking truth, yet they are constantly being aggressive and ridiculing the beliefs of others, if their words always stir up trouble - know them by their fruit.
If a politician tells you they want to reduced the debt, and lower taxes, and spread peace, yet the debt and the taxes continue to rise and the wars get worse instead of better - know them by their fruit.
Words are cheap, claims are easy to make. How many times in my own life have I pretended to be something I'm not, just to get something I wanted? Perception starts with self - if I'm not honest with myself then everything I see and hear will be distorted. First make sure your own vision is clear:
Matthew 7
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
6"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.

The first part clearly teaches that we need to take care of our own blindness before we can help someone else with theirs. But what's that last verse about?
To me, in the context it seems to mean "don't waste your time with those who are not even interested in what you have to offer. It will mean nothing to them, and they will only turn around and attack you for your efforts."
I can't help someone see if they have no interest in seeing. I can't help them solve their problem if they don't even think they have a problem. If they're happy wallowing in the mud, leave them to their mud and look for someone who appreciates what you have to offer.
It takes discernment to know the difference between those truly in need and those who are just working the system for their own amusement. I have a hard time telling the difference, especially at first.
I'm not one of those who sees red flags in everything, and runs at the first sign of a possible 'red flag.' But I don't ignore them when I see them. Give everyone a chance, but don't be naive. Pay attention, and if they consistently show themselves to be something other than what they claim, turn around and walk away.
If the person really is playing games, talking to them about it won't help (players are professional talkers.) Giving them more time and showing them how sweet and patient and generous you are won't help (doormats make easy targets.)
It's frustrating. It's tiring. It's so tempting to want to fight back and make them understand, or at least make them pay for what they're doing. But it's not worth it. The hypocrisy of others is on their own heads. Sometimes the best I can do is walk away, and close my ears to the taunts they throw at my back to try to get me to react.
Don't let hypocrites and mockers make you give up! Keep coming back here and sharing encouragement (and ignoring the hypocrites and mockers here, because you'll find those everywhere.) Keep going out there and being true to yourself, and standing on your convictions! I can't guarantee you'll always be happy and find everything you want, but I guarantee your life will be better for being true to yourself and doing what you know is right!
Feel free to share examples of 'good fruit' vs 'bad fruit' from your own life / experience, or any other thoughts you have on this topic.
Last edited by kevin76; October 23,2009 at 3:35pm. Reason: formatting issues
 
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FaithNGod is offline FaithNGod Post #2  October 23,2009, 3:59pm
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Kevin excellent challenge. It is sad that we are living in a time where men will be lovers of their own self more than lovers of God and do what is right in their own eyes.
They will proclaim about how much they love Jesus and God and how important he is to them yet spiting in the very face of the clear teachings of scripture concerning their own lives and the fruit it produces. I have had one female from a singles tell me about her friend who fornicates with her boyfriend and told her she knew it was Gods will for her. She said this in spite of the clear teachings concerning fornication and the profession by God concerning His own will.
I have been hearing of those who have rejected their faith yet they believe because they made a intellectual decision to believe Jesus died for them they will be saved. This flies in the very face of the Love of God and their lack of understanding the precious gift God has made for them. I wounder where is the reciprocation of our love for God if we really believe God loves us so much. Where is the action or evidence that backs up our claim to love God just as he has provided such evidence of His love toward us.
 
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Cloud_Strife is offline Cloud_Strife Post #3  October 23,2009, 4:53pm

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Thanks for this Kevin. I needed it.
 
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Questioninggirl is offline Questioninggirl Post #4  October 24,2009, 2:51am
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kevin76 wrote :
6"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.
To me, in the context it seems to mean "don't waste your time with those who are not even interested in what you have to offer. It will mean nothing to them, and they will only turn around and attack you for your efforts."

I can't help someone see if they have no interest in seeing. I can't help them solve their problem if they don't even think they have a problem. If they're happy wallowing in the mud, leave them to their mud and look for someone who appreciates what you have to offer.

It takes discernment to know the difference between those truly in need and those who are just working the system for their own amusement. I have a hard time telling the difference, especially at first.
Thank you Kevin, for this reminder and encouragement to keep posting...wisely. I appreciate it.

BTW...sorry to pull out parts of what you said without multiple quotes, I haven't figured that out yet.
 
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Ugidali is offline Ugidali Post #5  October 24,2009, 12:44pm
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Hi. I think you are quite right to judge someone by their "fruit" especially if they are claiming to be Christian.
And unfortunately, even that term (Christian) has to be evaluated these days. There are high percentages of people who claim to be Christian and yet they fail to believe in some common tenets of the faith. (Things such as the virgin birth of Christ, His death and resurrection, the reality of the Holy Spirit, etc.)
I'm irked (or the Spirit within me is) even when say, watching a certain bounty hunter on TV curse, said bounty hunter who is Christian. All I can do is pray for him, and maybe send off an email admonishing him! lol
I'd certainly like for others to gently nudge me if they find something I do "un" Christian. I look for things all the time, and thankfully I've been a Christian for over 40 years now and there are fewer things to work on.
I know I used the word "judge." Yes, we are to judge those who claim to be Christians. Those are the only people we are to judge, as God judges the others.
peace.
 
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MsAmazingWoman09 is offline MsAmazingWoman09 Post #6  October 24,2009, 4:07pm
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@Kevin76
Amazing words of encouragement.
 
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jsbach is offline jsbach Post #7  October 24,2009, 5:31pm
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Good Biblical principles to remind us of what is permanent and eternal. I've heard it said that farmers understand many of God's laws better than many Christians do. You reap what you sow. We can't plant beans and expect to harvest corn. We can not plant nothing at all and expect to reap something.

Kevin, what you have written here has reminded me of the trials I've had this fall at my job.

I am a teacher at a small (but not dinky) Christian school. Unfortunately, we have about 3 employees who like to drum up trouble. Somebody must be on their hit list at all times. They complain, make false accusations, bad mouth staff to the parents and so on. Wish they could put as much energy and enthusiasm into their jobs. Why this is tolerated is another story.

This Fall I have been elected as their #1 enemy. It's been exhausting. My poor Teacher's aide is so confused by these troublemakers' actions. She doesn't understand how they can work at a Christian org. and behave in such an unChristian manner. As we are told in the Bible, by your fruits ye shall know them. I'd have to say there are many folks that are not Christians who behave much better than these troublemakers.

I did not go to the boss with this info. She doesn't care for complainers and unless she has witnessed the negative behavior herself, she is skeptical. It's best if she sees it for herself without my help.

My classroom is beautiful. My windows face a wooded area and it is a quiet and peaceful, too. I love the children in my class and my aide is great. Everything in our building is so clean. I have a lot of freedom in what I teach. Nonetheless, I wanted to quit. I came home crying many days this past month.

My friends have kept me in prayer. I never retaliate or even speak up to the offenders. I want it obvious to all that the problem isn't "ours" but the problem is theirs. And I asked God to let this bad situation bring out the best in me. Hopefully I've been a good example to my young aide.

Yikes! Sorry for the long post.
Last edited by jsbach; October 24,2009 at 5:34pm.
 
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chawks64 is offline chawks64 Post #8  October 24,2009, 6:18pm
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Not trying to stir anything up or antagonize, but I think we sometimes need to be reminded of 2 points:

1. Not all Christians have the same theology and may understand the Bible to mean different things or have a different interpretation of it. That may or may not have any bearing on their salvation. None of us is omniscient, so I would hesitate to evaluate the state of someone else's salvation or relationship with Christ based solely on our own theological conclusions. Feel free to choose not to befriend or date them, and to stick to your own interpretations, but I would again hesitate to outright judge their faith without having the mind of God.

2. Knowing someone by their fruits is an excellent verse. Keep in mind that some fruits may look healthy and pleasing but in reality be bitter. Usually it just takes time for the truth to come out, but I've seen wonderful things done for selfish motives. We are only fallible human beings and do not have the judgment abilities of God.

Just throwing my 2 cents worth in.
 
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notyet is offline notyet Post #9  October 24,2009, 7:43pm
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kevin76 wrote :
...It's so tempting to want to fight back and make them understand, or at least make them pay for what they're doing. But it's not worth it. The hypocrisy of others is on their own heads. Sometimes the best I can do is walk away, and close my ears to the taunts they throw at my back to try to get me to react.
Don't let hypocrites and mockers make you give up! Keep coming back here and sharing encouragement (and ignoring the hypocrites and mockers here, because you'll find those everywhere.)...
nicely put- well done
 
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TracyBluebird is offline TracyBluebird Post #10  October 25,2009, 3:57pm
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kevin76 wrote :

If someone on this message board claims to be a Christian, or an innocent questioner seeking truth, yet they are constantly being aggressive and ridiculing the beliefs of others, if their words always stir up trouble - know them by their fruit.

Give everyone a chance, but don't be naive. Pay attention, and if they consistently show themselves to be something other than what they claim, turn around and walk away.


It's frustrating. It's tiring. It's so tempting to want to fight back and make them understand, or at least make them pay for what they're doing. But it's not worth it. The hypocrisy of others is on their own heads. Sometimes the best I can do is walk away, and close my ears to the taunts they throw at my back to try to get me to react.

Don't let hypocrites and mockers make you give up! Keep coming back here and sharing encouragement (and ignoring the hypocrites and mockers here, because you'll find those everywhere.) Keep going out there and being true to yourself, and standing on your convictions! I
Thank you for the reminder. I needed it today. I also wanted to share a verse God gave me the day I was divorced. I had no lawyer (long story), I had to ask questions of a man on behalf of my children, a man who abused me and my children. When I asked him if he hit his daughter until she was bruised, he answered "It was because she was trying to get away."

It made me physically ill.and just sat there getting mocked and beat up by lies and accusations. I just sat there and took it and knew God was by my side. I had tears pouring out of my face, and it was not sadness, it was pure submission to God. I wasn't going to be pulled into the evil. I just took it like a beating.

When I got back to my friend's house, the following verse was on the TV. Yep, God even talks to us on the television!

Phillipians 1:27-28
27Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in one spirit, contending as one man for the faith of the gospel 28without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you. This is a sign to them that they will be destroyed, but that you will be saved--and that by God 29For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for him

My fruit I show to my kids is my peaceful spirit, where I live to love like Christ, and not to win...yet still, sometimes I need to be reminded.

Thank you. {{{{{Kevin}}}}}}
 
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