notyet is offline notyet Post #31  April 16,2010, 4:34pm
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coeuri wrote :
That is your perspective...
honestly, i don't know if it is or not. not a cope out, but my life verse has recently become jeremiah 17:9

The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?

this verse is not an excuse but a reminder that i often do not acknowledge my own motives. it reminds me to be as honest with others and myself as i can.

i do think we all have multiple reasons for being here. and i am glad you are here.
 
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rix is offline rix Post #32  April 16,2010, 11:25pm
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Happy 1st Anniversary, babe!

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deistdreamer wrote :
There is ample, verifiable, eye witness accounts that can be cross referenced with other eye witness sources that lead any reasonable person to conclude both Washington and Lincoln lived and walked among us at some point in human history.

The contemporary documentation for the historical Jesus is no where near as complete as the above two historical figures.

Nevertheless, I am convinced he historical Jesus did once walk among us.

It does become more challenging and problematic the further we become removed from historical events. Although, we do not tend to question the existence of Homer, even though the manuscript evidence for The Illiad and Odyssey are severely dwarfed by the manuscript evidence for the New Testament. In other words, there is a vast disparity between number one and number two regarding ancient manuscript evidence. But then, one might ask if there exists a disparity between the "historical Jesus" and the "Jesus of Faith," or is it a false dichotomy?

More than likely, Josephus did not write "Jesus was the son of God," since the verse appears virtually out of the blue in Josephus' writings, and there is so no further elaboration in his "histories." Therefore, more than likely it was inserted at a later date.

So then, the question arises if the gospels are reliable historical documents, or are they merely recasting myths and legends set in the context of Palestine near the turn of the century? And, while it is true that the birth of Christ and his passion are celebrated on dates coinciding with former pagan festivals, many Christians do not actually believe that Jesus was born on Dec. 25th, nor his resurrection coinciding with the "resurrection" of spring from the death and barrenness of winter.

New Age Syncretists and conspiracy theorists (such as in the movie Zeitgeist) go to great lengths to demonstrate that Jesus is nothing more than a long line of "Savior myths" stretching back to Osiris in Ancient Egypt. However, serious students of both mythology and religion, who have "done their homework," know that such comparisons are both a bit intellectually dishonest and a "wee bit of a stretch;" and that the differences far outweigh the alleged "similarities." In fact, more "similarities" seemed to appear after the advent of Christianity. Hummm? But yes, we are left with the question of who exactly was the "historical Jesus?" And perhaps that discussion would be interesting fodder for another thread!
Last edited by rix; April 16,2010 at 11:33pm.
 
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rix is offline rix Post #33  April 17,2010, 12:26am
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Happy 1st Anniversary, babe!

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notyet wrote :
i did not mean that those of us who are believers are not The Church. but that this forum is not a church...


although it was recently brought to my attention that this forum may not be as friendly to newbies as i would like. we may have to work on that...




i do think there is occasional posturing here...

if we were in a church, of course, we would all still be looking for mates. but perhaps not at the precise time we were attending services.
Yes, if this were a "traditional church," chances are I wouldn't be here.

And, a regular "church board" would definitely not accept an eclectic, "postevangelical" existentialist like myself.

Kudos to notyet for putting together such a team. After all, think of the "team" Jesus put together. More than likely, such a diverse"salt of the earth" unconventional group would be rejected by the vast majority of church boards. But then again; so would Jesus!...

I also want to apologize if I have been less than gracious and accommodating toward newer members. Also, if I have been a bit "snarly" toward others in general in the group. I do tend to favor an idealist personality, and I do hope to have the "courage of my convictions," but reality often exposes personal hypocrisy. However, I often feel it is better to actually lose an argument than alienate someone. And if I come away feeling like I may have "come out on top" in a debate, I often grieve inside over how I might have affected the other person. So, if I have alienated anyone in the group (or on the boards); I'm sorry! Nothing personal!

But then again, I don't know anyone (except for one person in particular *smile*) to be "personal." And referring to another thread started by notyet, remember that "normal is just a setting on the dryer;" and the only 'normal' people, are the ones you don't know very well! ...

As for "posturing;" what's your favorite position? ...

Yes, I think it is bit hypocritical to go to services to look for a mate, especially if you meet someone there, then it would rightfully be a expectation for you to be a regular "Sunday-go-to-meetin'" person. But if you go to church with the intention of meeting someone; and then later say, "it's not my thing!" Then, that would be a bit deceitful.

Although, I appreciate what Coeuri had to say in another thread on the importance of "community." The key is finding a healthy community that encourages open and honest inquiry, is not controlling, and does not stifle dissent. There is a joke that asks what do you get when you have a group of fifty people with differing opinions ? A Baptist church. And people from the liberal Bill Moyers to the conservative Adrian Rogers claim the mantle of Baptist, and perhaps I may eventually go back to the original roots of my childhood. Although, the group is not without its own "fringe" elements, such as the "KJV only fundies" and those who believe that all "sign gifts" are from the devil (there are some rather interesting "sermons" on YouTube); And I guess my relatively long hair would have me branded as a "sinful long-haired man" guilty of "hairolatry."
Last edited by rix; April 17,2010 at 1:34am.
 
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phoenix888 is offline phoenix888 Post #34  April 17,2010, 10:45am
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But isn't any gathering of people who believe in Christ a sort of 'church' of its own? In the beginning of the faith, there were many, many tiny groupings of believers who met where they could. Perhaps in the computer age, a message board is just another place where believers may gather.
 
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notyet is offline notyet Post #35  April 17,2010, 4:04pm
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in my understanding, any gathering of believers in not necessarily a "church." but they are certainly a part of the body of christ. and as a collective part of the body they are obligated to correct, rebuke, instruct and encourage each other in the faith. i guess depending on one's definition of "church" this could be a church.

i, like many here, am not a big fan of that word- per se. and am not a fan of the organized church at all- although i currently attend a few with my children.

and before anyone jumps on my about not being a fan of the word, understand what the word is and what the body is referred to in the new testament.

church comes from a german word that at its root means building. the word in the New Testament normally rendered church is εκκλησια. ecclesia. those who have been called out. and what were they called out from? the religious establishment of the time.

we are also referred to as the body of christ. and we who are believers here are certainly members of that. the universal (catholic) body of christ.

but as i type this, i think the reason i do not see this as a "church" is because of the diversity of opinion offered here and lack of certain leadership. not that that is a bad thing. it is good. but i do not run this board as i would if i were leading a local body. if i did, there would not be so much diversity here. not that everyone could not have their say, but some of the more outlandish things that have been said here would not have gone unanswered. if this were a "church" or even a local bible study, i would make sure we all understood the historic orthodoxy of the faith.

that is missing in this group. as is real leadership. not that i am not able to fill that role, i just do not feel that role is appropriate to this forum. this is a discussion among friends. i'd prefer that it stay that way.
 
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deistdreamer is offline deistdreamer Post #36  April 17,2010, 5:23pm
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notyet wrote :



but as i type this, i think the reason i do not see this as a "church" is because of the diversity of opinion offered here and lack of certain leadership. not that that is a bad thing. it is good. but i do not run this board as i would if i were leading a local body... i just do not feel that role is appropriate to this forum. this is a discussion among friends. i'd prefer that it stay that way.
It is the way I see it. If I thought I needed to join a church to speak my mind here, I would head for the exit. If this was a church the last thing any of us would be able to do was hold an honest discussion with honestly held difference of opinion. The goal would be to get us all to conform to a given set of agreed truths. I seek truth but I don't hold to any particular set of truths.

I believe in a Creator and I hope for happy endings. Everything else is open and unfixed. Although I respect honest teachers both in and outside the church, I do not have much if any use for clerics or church leaders.

So anyway glad to hear this isn't a church because this church drop out is not going back to church.
 
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sweetdestiny24 is offline sweetdestiny24 Post #37  May 20,2010, 6:24pm
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welcome to the new admins, ty for taking your time to moderate...

and ty notyet for your patience and understanding, we all need patience and understanding, they help us to grow
 
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ursa is offline ursa Post #38  May 29,2010, 5:22am
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Christian Singles is not what I expected. I expected everyone to be practicing Christians, albeit from the whole gamut of denominations and traditions. It's certainly more than that, hence more interesting and stimulating, but so far rather uncomfortable. However, from a Gestalt perspective, that,s not necessarily a bad thing either. Anyway, I've hardly been here two minutes, so who knows what's going to happen?!
 
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notyet is offline notyet Post #39  June 12,2010, 3:20pm
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ursa wrote :
Christian Singles is not what I expected. I expected everyone to be practicing Christians, albeit from the whole gamut of denominations and traditions. It's certainly more than that, hence more interesting and stimulating, but so far rather uncomfortable. However, from a Gestalt perspective, that,s not necessarily a bad thing either. Anyway, I've hardly been here two minutes, so who knows what's going to happen?! :eek:
no, not bad. it's all good. most of the time!

(-:(>
Last edited by notyet; June 12,2010 at 3:33pm.
 
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acelticsteve is offline acelticsteve Post #40  February 2,2011, 9:43pm

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judging from what is happing in the mid east these last few days to argue the exixtance of Jesus and who he is may well be a mote point. It is hard to argue when you are looking Him in the face. I ahve a feeling that time is fast running out. I may be wrong, but if I am wright then there is only put the message out loude and clear and simply, Jesus came to seek and to save the lost. If some one does not want to hear that I am sorry, I just don't think that we have time to debate the issue. I am sorry, but that is the way I feel now. I look at all teh people who are suffering and need a saviour, I don't have time for the ones who don't think they do. Jesus came to make you a new person, to remove your sins as far as the east is from the west. there it is take it or leave it, I hope you take it. If you don't want it there 6billion people in this world, and jesus told his deciples taht they would not get to all teh villages in isrial, what about the rest of the world? I am almost to the point that I don't care who rules the country, Who rules your hart, is it you or Jesus?
 
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