Saving Sex for Marriage

I see you are not of one particular religion I gather, what do you believe in?

I would love for you to read the Bible

I was born and raised a Catholic. I seldom go to church, anymore. It is a long story. I am not an atheist. I feel certain there is a God, but I am not sure it is wise to claim to know so much about God. This is true, in my opinion, even of Bible readers.

I know many Protestants malign Catholics for being wary of sola scriptura, but I think it is better to have at least some counsel or insight from Church teachers and scholars on what the Bible is actually stating as opposed to what we think it should be stating. I was never told to not read the Bible. I was, however, told to seek out wiser voices than myself before reaching conclusions about the word of God.

I have then to answer your question read and in groups studied the Bible. Neither the reading, or the study, or my subsequent falling away from the Church has caused me to abandon my belief in God. But it has caused me to question most of what I once almost unthinkingly accepted as gospel truth about God.

I am a Deist. I believe in one God and only one God. I believe the structure and architect of the universe points to a Creator or Mind Force or God. I believe the Creator gave each of us the gift of reason and when we use it even to question every single revealed religious teaching or dogma we are not engaged in blasphemy, but worship. I think a good metaphor for God is Truth so when we seek Truth with all our strength and mind we are in effect practically applying one of Jesus' two supreme commandments.

The second supreme commandment, of course, is to be a good neighbor (see the Good Samaritan). We don't know if the good Samaritan was sexually pure, married or unmarried, virgin or not, whether he lusted after women or spent his days lost in visions of God. All we know and all that Jesus thought we needed to know was he reached out and helped someone in need.

I guess I should now go back to the topic of this thread: sex before marriage. In my opinion, it is not a black and white issue. I think if you are obsessed with sex--either because you are going at it like bunnies or because you are getting none and spend each day and hour wishing you were getting some--so that you think of nothing else and hence do not spend time on spiritual issues or with helping your neighbors then sex is a sin, that is it separates you from the Divine. Otherwise, in my opinion sex with or without a marriage license is a gift of the Creator. Enjoy it

Dear, as a Catholic too I am wondering , what is your concern....? ...I have to live with myself before I live with anybody else. Understand?

I am not a practicing Catholic. I don't feel bound by any of the Church's rules and until the hierarchy gets its house in order (see child sex abuse and the way the Church put institution first and the child second)I am not all that interested in seeking any moral direction from people like the pope or cardinals.

My "concerns" in terms of this discussion is not on whether you or others choose to be celibate. This is your choice and none of my business.

My "concern" was more general or abstract in nature. I simply wonder why so much of American Christianity in particular has become so obsessed with sexual purity laws. It would not be surprising if most non Christians concluded that Jesus died to save us from the sin of masturbation or reaching an orgasm with the wrong person or in the wrong season or without the appropriate licenses.

It is hard not to read in the remarks of many here who brag about their sexual purity a kind of spiritual pride one associates in the NT with the Pharisees. Whether fair or not, the Pharisees are portrayed as believing they earn their way into the Kingdom or God's good graces by strict observance of all the many religious rules. They were truly, in their minds, purer than thou.

So too, it seems to me, do many Christians who can't wait to buttonhole you and tell you they are virgins or they are waiting for their second or third spouse before doing it again.

All too often, in my opinion, there is a direct link between sexual purity and spiritual pride. If you wish to be sexually pure do so but do so quietly. Don't announce to the whole world that you are a virgin or you won't do it again till you are re married. It is really no different than the Pharisees, again, who were criticized by Jesus for making a big noise about their prayers or offerings or religious observances.

Why? I think because Jesus knew such holier than thou bluster wound up pushing a whole lot of less pure people like myself away from God.

I am not personally directing this at you, I don't know you, so that would be both rude and stupid. Just some general thought on the topic. Feel free to disagree with me.

Peace.

Pheonix, Thank you for your post. When we have threads like this I am saddened by how hard it is for many of us who don't have pristine experiences to post on these threads. It is so difficult sometimes to risk the social stigma that often is felt inside based on behaviors toward our perceived failures in the past. I can only say I am glad of a forgiving God who redeems our lives instead of binding us. I too understand the pain of some of the sanctions that seem strongest toward women in churches and had almost 10 years away from church.

I have since returned to seeking to be a part of a faith community . I struggle often with being there but I remember what it was to long for something of my faith to show in the compassion of other believers. I am there for all the times I hurt and felt alone so that maybe, just maybe, my presence and my faith can be that support for that hurting person who believes in the God of our faith but struggles with the prejudice of a culture of rejection of those who don't fit certain norms. I believe there are others out there like me. How I wish we could also find a way to encourage each other.

May your faith and your hope truly rise from the ashes.

So. My experience has been painful regarding women and sexuality in the church. I tried doing the right thing and still felt punished. I received none of the supposed promises for being a good wife. I still have faith in God, but no longer subscribe to organized religion. I never received any support there...