BeccaBear is offline BeccaBear Post #1  February 27,2009, 6:58pm
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Church, is it necessary in furthering your spiritual relationship with God? Or is it a simple ritual that we have disguised as something deeper? Or is it a an easy way for people to learn the word of God without doing the reading and thinking themselves? Is it a way to control people through religion? And finally, if you believe it's necessary would you date someone that refuses to attend?
 
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coeuri is offline coeuri Post #2  February 28,2009, 4:40am
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Becca, What an excellent topic! I have gone through changes in this area myself. Your questions and the responses will help me in my own faith journey. I have heard and struggled with each of those views. Right now I am satisfied with being there as a place to share my faith journey with others who are also seeking to know God. It is a place that does draw seekers, at least my church is, and having been a seeker myself, I was drawn there becuase it was a refuge for seekers, for the hurting, and for the unincluded who still wondered about faith.


I go, no matter what my feelings are on a given Sunday because The church I am in is one that would draw people I have known in my life that are hurting and confused. The first Sunday there last June, a woman from the street who had come in was the one who shared a Bible with me. No one treated her as if she shouldn't be there so I felt it was a place I could be safe to heal and grow. The next Sunday in walked a child I had cared for in a children's emergency shelter with his Gramma. There are others there that have become my heart family as I have become theirs. The questions, the worship, the direction of teaching points toward Jesus Christ and living our lives fully for God.


Would I date someone who refused to attend? As I start with something like coffee, yes, because in dialogue you can get to know someone better and I have gone through my own journey of time away from the church so know there are many reasons. I would decide where it goes from there by knowing the individual for himself. However, Christian in label or no, would I stay with someone who did not find faith an important part of their life? No, because I would have to put too much of my life, too much of what makes my life feel aliveon a shelf in that relationship and my hunger to grow is too great to not be able to share it openly with someone.
 
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BeccaBear is offline BeccaBear Post #3  February 28,2009, 7:36am
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Thank-you for your response. This is something I'm currently struggling with because I do want someone that is passionate about God in my life, but all the men that I've talked to that share a similar faith as mine are either uncaring aboutit, or they are super church type people(not that there is anything wrong with that) that want a girl that will attend church with them. This is something that I cannot do. I spent the first 18 years of my life attending many different churches and only one did I feel welcome in, and I only felt welcome in the youth group. I'm not saying all churches are as judgemental as the ones I've had the misfortune of attending, but because these churches caused me so much grief in my childhood I found my faith in the Lord almost nonexistant at one point in my life. In my personal experience the church itself wasn't the problem, seeing as how it's just a building afterall, but the people within the church. Most of them were the kind of people that say they are christian, that go to church on Sunday, but throughout the rest of the week live their lives doing things that, well, are just not... nice. (I'm going to avoid examples because that would feel like gossiping) And then the other churchesthat I attended were full of ritual driven people. Anything different wasn't welcome. Which, I mean, didn't affect me personally, but I had a few friends that were subtley(if that's a word?)attacked during sermons. It made them feel awful and made me extremely angry on their behalf, because these were good people that made a mistake. So I guess I've just seen too much negative to understand the positive side of churches and I appreciate that the first comment has been positive.
 
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Nicodemus is offline Nicodemus Post #4  February 28,2009, 8:38am
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Great topic and answers!


I have a friend who dosn't go to church, but he has a good relationship with God. I know people who "do" church, and don't seem to "walk with God".


Its too easy to get causght up in practicing religion (system 1) - following rules. "System 2" teaches us to learn how to grow towards God, this is a lifestyle. Church happens where followers get together and talk to each other.


I love the gospel of John, where..."Now there was a member of the Pharasees, named Nicodemus..."


He went to Jesus looking for more answers, more rules to follow; but it got bright. Jesus told him, I have some good news and some bad new, and its the same news; good people don;t go to heaven, forgiven people go to heaven. Ole Nic just stood there and took it, and became a follower himself.


I hate "church", but I love BRCC (where I go). Its my extended family, we have big and little brothers, and in our small groups - lives change. At our last Baptisms, one of our new family members accepted Jesus at Walmart at 2AM. Our small groups meet out in restaurants, not the church, and this is where it gets real.


I haven't missed a Sunday at BRCC, but its because of the energy, music and seeing my friends. I learn the principles (providential will of God), and morals (moral will of God) from the Bible there, as well as from many sermon dvds I listen to. But I learn how to have a relationship with God (Personal will of God) through other Christians and our converations, just like this.


Nic., Out.
 
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Nicodemus is offline Nicodemus Post #5  February 28,2009, 8:47am
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On a side note;


BeccaB, check out: http://www.andystanleysermons.org/other_products.html


This is North Point church, its a community church like mine, but bigger (some 20,000 members in three campuses).


If you find a local church which follows this format, you'll see that your beliefs are in the majority; more and more people are getting fed up with just playing religion and are seeking out the truth.


Sorry for injecting my opinion here but I don't like anything which separates us from God, especially when its dressed up like religion.


OK, I'll go away now.
 
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Adrienne89 is offline Adrienne89 Post #6  February 28,2009, 10:08am
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BeccaBear, wrote :

Church, is it necessary in furthering your spiritual relationship with God? Or is it a simple ritual that we have disguised as something deeper? Or is it a an easy way for people to learn the word of God without doing the reading and thinking themselves? Is it a way to control people through religion? And finally, if you believe it's necessary would you date someone that refuses to attend?
My church family is very important, and it will remain my rock for the rest of my life. I was raised in the church and hope to raise my future family with the same values and love of God that have enriched my life so much.
 
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abjon is offline abjon Post #7  February 28,2009, 11:10am

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The visible church provides community, friendship, a sense of belonging, fulfills a human desire for communal woship and so on. It is hard to imagine Christianity could ever have survived 2000 years withoutinstituional supportto protect and proclaim its central teachings.


The church like the bible should not be made the object of worship, a kind of brick and mortar or printed stand in for God. Both the church and bible, at best, point to God but are not to be mistaken for God.


So what's my point? Anyone who rejects a person simply because he or she does not attend their church or any church needs to know why it is they are rejecting this person. They cannot assume that non church attendance means a person does not belong to the invisible church, that he or she is not part of the family or communion of followers ofJesus. Nor should theyconclude that going to church proves he or she is a Christian, for as Jesus stated, "I did not know them".


If you take Jesus seriously and not merely pay lip service to him you would know that not one of us can say this or that person does not belong to Jesus. We don't know nor are we asked to figure out the ins and outs. The only jobs given to followrs of Jesus is to accept, love, support, forgive be good neighbors.


So a Baptist or Lutheran or Catholic may not want to date a non Bapitst or non Lutheran or non Catholic for cultural reasons, but they would have no cause to presume that non attendance in these visible churches meant the other person was not beloved by Jesus.


Personally as a former churched person I do not find the visible churches to be healthy, safe, places to "work on God". There simply is too strong a drive for conformity and group thinking as reflected in every churches statements of beliefs. Worst of all churches all too oftenput a high premium ondenominational loyalty. There is often more interest in making you a Baptist-Christian or Lutheran-Christian or Catholic-Christian than it is in helping you become the face, the voice, the hands, the heart of Jesus in the village square.


BTW looking at this question of whether a churched person would date a non churched person from the other side, so to speak: It is hard to date in America without dating Christians. The only time that I have ever experienced any grief from a Christian woman about my lack of church attendance was the one time I dated a Mormon woman. She made it clear that if we were going to have a future I would have to become a Mormon. I made it clear that this was not about to happen and so the relationship ended.


Beyond this I have happily dated both Protestand and Catholic women and none of them made my not going to church an issue. It works both ways, too. I never make any issues over them going to church. It just means that after a late Saturday night date they don't get to sleep in and I do. I think what distinguishes most of the Christian women I have dated from, perhaps, other Christian women is that most of them have a broader, less parochial, less denominational, less brick and mortar vision of what it means to be a Christian.
 
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Adrienne89 is offline Adrienne89 Post #8  March 2,2009, 6:10am
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I see church as an extended family. I don't date exclusively within my church, since there are may good quality people who don't necessarily attend any church. In my experience, it's best never to generalize or assume you know a person's values, habits and suitability merely by his or her associations. My advice is to broaden you opportunities by dating many different people and using your own judgment.
 
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vlnman is offline vlnman Post #9  March 2,2009, 4:19pm
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This is an interesting topic since the act of attending church in some fashion or another is for a great many viewed as a sort of weekly chore they go about doing. But in reality, historically, theologically....the visible Church was instituted by Christ Himself. I would have to take the opposing view that this is simply a made up novelty.


Ekklesia is the word used by the earliest Christians, which comes from the same term used to describe the gathering (assembly is probably a better term) of believers of Moses on Mt Sinai. Additionally the Church represents the reign of Christ come to being from the blood and water from His heart that was pierced on the cross. The purpose of the Church is to unite us....the human race....as the mystical body of Christ.


The 3 basic groups are Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant. The Orthodox and Catholic trace a direct line of consecration back to the original Apostles. The Protestant group is segmented by denominations and the succesion of consecration has been broken....but still most adhere to the unity of Christ with the Church. What this then translates to is a decentralized approach in the Protestant groups and a centralized approach with Orthodox and Catholics. The thought that there is a huge difference in the basic doctrines of Christianity between the groups is highly exaggerated. Differneces in traditions, emphasis, yes...but not in the foundations of belief. The details of how to implement what Christ taught is where the differences occur.


Jesus gave the Apostles a rather clear mission...to become ministers of the new covenant so to speak...to preach the Good News. And the apostles very specifically appointed directsuccesors. Just as the Father sent Jesus, so Jesus sends the Apostles....and so on. How exactly do we send forth ourselves? There has been an organized Church since the time of Jesus....and this is where the liturigies, eucharistic sacrifice,and celebrations have existed since the first century. We have written history from documents of Justin Martyr, Irenaues, the Didache, etc. to refer to. The celebration of salvation is a community eventbetween the baptized ...the mystical Body of Christ....united with Jesus as the head of His Church. We collectively represent the Body ...not individual bodies....of Christ.


To me...the problem today is the fact that this history ofthe Church isseldom taught on Sunday. Without purpose attendance at any church service, regardless of affiliation, becomes a chore. If the answer to why we attend church on Sunday is - because we are supposed to.....there's a lot missing.


As far as dating....it's an integral part of what many people are .... and it's something to draw a couple together not apart. If I date a Jew for instance...I may not be Jewish, I may not convert to Judaism, I may agree with some principles and others not.....but I would very much want to be involved in that person's faith , and want the same in return. If faith divides, then the relationship is not exactly sitting on solid ground to start with


I would have to add a thought....if you attend a church where the priest , pastor , congregation behave in a less than Christ like manner....then indeed it's just a ritual, a way of controlling people, a chore....it's far from the Body of Christ that I'm referring to above
 
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LisaRey is offline LisaRey Post #10  March 4,2009, 8:43am
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The Bible points to the fact that we should not forsake fellowship and the assembling together, one with another, which is one of the building blocks of the church. It also says do not be unequally yoked with an unbeliever. You can be a believer and not attend church, but you are missing out on a lot by not doing so, especially moral support in today's world. That said, it really has to be up to you if you want to date a non church goer. They may have reasons as I do for not going anymore - anything from non acceptance, social anxiety, or feeling you are not worthy. If your life is the church and you want that fellowship and have someone beside you to share in that , i would say no. It is much easier to draw a goer away by a non goer than vice versa.
 
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