RobInPlano is offline RobInPlano Post #1  January 29,2009, 10:38pm
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Since the topic of lust is so hotly debated, I thought this might be helpful.


Here is a snippet from an article I found that goes deep into the original meaning of Jesus's definition of "lust" in scripture.


This is only asmall portion of the article. Theoriginal article can be found at MarriageRomance.Com, using this link: http://www.marriageromance.com/stories/12299076263.htm


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The only passage in the Bible defining sexual "lust" is: Matthew 5 verses 27 and 28 where Jesus said, "27 You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart,"


Jesus was actually combining the 7th and the 10th commandments when he pointed out that "lusting" or "coveting" to have sex with a woman is as bad as physically committing adultery.


The 7th commandment, Exodus 20:14 says, "You shall not commit adultery. " And the 10th commandment, Exodus 20:17 says, "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."


Jesus was pointing out that "coveting" to have sex with a woman is a form of adultery.


The Old Testament Hebrew word “chamad”, in the 10th commandment which we translate as "covet", is very similar to the New Testament Greek word "epithumeo", which we translate as "lust".


The confusion comes from the reality that we don't have the original Hebrew text for the New Testament book of Matthew. Many scholars now believe that Jesus did speak in Hebrew in the New Testament. And most likely Matthew penned the book of Matthew in Hebrew. But today, our book of Matthew in the New Testament, is based on a Greek translation of Matthew and we don't know who the author of the Greek Matthew was.


The point being that most likely Jesus spoke in Hebrew and used the word Hebrew word "chamad" in Matthew 5 verse 28, which we should translate as "covet". And most likely Jesus did not speak in Greek and use the Greek word "epithumeo" which has been translated as "lust".


The Hebrew word for “covet” in the Old Testament book of Exodus 20:17 is the transliterated word “chamad” which can mean, “to desire, covet, take pleasure in, delight in.”


The Greek word for "lust" in the New Testament book of Matthew 5:28 is the transliterated word, “epithumeo” which can mean, “to covet things forbidden, to desire earnestly; to have a longing desire for.”


Notice the English translation of the Hebrew word "chamad" (to covet) and the Greek word "epithumeo" (to lust), are very similar. But neither refers to the emotion of sexual arousal. Both refer to a consious willful desire.


And so in Biblical usage, "lusting" and "coveting" are the same. They are both wanting something that is not yours, so badly that your desire to get what you want, interferes with your relationship with God and with others.
.....


That is the real message of Matthew 5 verses 27 to 29. It is a warning to married men to check their thoughts and make sure they are not wishing they could have sex with other women. Because if they are, then they are in need of a major overhaul of their heart.

When this happens it is time to sit down with your wife and start thinking about why the marriage relationship is about to unravel. Jesus is saying it is not normal to have thoughts of adultery running through your mind when you see a woman. It is a warning that there is something really wrong with your relationship with your wife and with God.

And thank God we have the original Greek translation to clarify what the word “epithumeo” means. It is not an emotion. It is an act of the will.

"Epithumeo" does not mean, “lust”, if “lust” means "sexual arousal", but rather "epithumeo", means “to covet” or to make a conscious decision in the mind to “desire to have sex with” - which is an act of the will.
 
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abjon is offline abjon Post #2  January 30,2009, 9:54am

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And the 10th commandment, Exodus 20:17 says, "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."


Hey, what about the ladies coveting the good looking dude next door? Was God a sexist? Did God not think that the ladies might just covet their neighbor's husband? And how come does God link oxes, donkeys and slaves along with wives?
 
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abjon is offline abjon Post #3  January 30,2009, 10:19am

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Before departing to make a living. I want to thank Robin for posting the above definition. It is amazing how many so called Bible reading Christians don't really understand what the Bible actually teaches and then use this ignorance to put the fear of God in some poor kid because he or she played with themselves and no doubt entertained a few fantasies, as well.


I think in a variation on the so called Pascal' Wager that every Christian or other kind of God believer can safely bet that God doesn't care at all, nadda, zero, whether you masturbate or have the odd lusty thought.


Let those who hate sex or pleasure and who wish to project this on their chosen God do so: just leave the rest of us alone. Live your lives out in self chosen misery and doom and gloom.
 
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godlessinseattle is offline godlessinseattle Post #4  January 31,2009, 10:03am
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It seems like when talking to some of the neo pharisees you have to repeat the same message over and over and over and over again. Since, the neo phrarisees don't have any Biblical evidence against masturbation they leap all over and misread and misinterpret the few words Jesus actually spoke about lust and manage to make it say what Jesus didn't say.


It is not new news that the word lust as used in the NT was not about merely looking at or feeling pleasure in the sight of or thought of this or that man or woman. It was directed at married men and to obsessing over someone elses wife, property in biblical terms.


But will this end it? No. The neo pharisees need the word lust to give them license to tell one and all that any delight in another is a sin. So they will never give up the right to put words into Jesus' mouth.
 
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godlessinseattle is offline godlessinseattle Post #5  January 31,2009, 10:07am
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abjon,461313 wrote :

And the 10th commandment, Exodus 20:17 says, "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."


Hey, what about the ladies coveting the good looking dude next door? Was God a sexist? Did God not think that the ladies might just covet their neighbor's husband? And how come does God link oxes, donkeys and slaves along with wives?

Although many Christians somewhat thoughtlessly invoke the Bible in defense of one man, one woman freely choosing each other out of an abiding love for each other. This is not always the case in the Bible where any honest reading of Scripture shows that women were often viewed as property: the property of their fathers and later after being sold the property of a husband, a husband who could legally buy other women as wives or concubines. No where where these ways of being married are noted do we see any prophet or God speaking against it. But this too won't stop many Christians from pretending that there exists only one God approved way of being married in the Bible and that is the present American one of of one wife and one husband joined together after a romantic interlude.
 
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truthaboutmarriage is offline truthaboutmarriage Post #6  December 7,2011, 9:55am
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i'm confused. is it married women that are forbidden or women? the 10 commandment specifically says not to covet your neighbor's belongings specifically for this HIS wife. to assume from the feminist perspective that a married man that has desire for an unmarried woman is forbidden is a grave injustice to scripture and what God tells/shows us is right and wrong. i agree with with the misconception of the definition however, make an attempt to let everyone know it is forbidden for any man, married or otherwise to covet another man's wife; not his sister, aunt, secretary, etc
 
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