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chawks64 chawks64 is offline
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chawks64 is trying very hard to be patient. Definitely not my best talent.

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D_Lion wrote :
You know, you are not the only one who is jumpy - I've been hopping-mad all week! I get upset at the subsidy-seeking, "child support should impoverish men due to obligation," mentality.

Everything I don't like about my situation, I'm actively trying to fix.

And I don't define my situation to US average persons, but to my peer group, as I should.
Sorry, I just don't count as a peer then and probably never will. You're really missing out on some good people if they have to have money and a degree.

And if the #1 goal is to keep as much money as you can all to yourself, even if it means being alone, then you can have the money. I'd rather have someone hold me at night.

Priorities again.
- November 6th, 2009, 07:07 pm
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cardguy cardguy is offline
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D_Lion wrote :
I think it works anywhere.

Proviso the student is responsible and can manage the property.

But yes - run the numbers. Four bedroom house or condo ought to get rental income from three bedrooms exceeding the mortage and tax, and all the capital gain you pocket.
I looked into this. Around where I live such an arrangement would have had me paying slightly more per month than renting a room out of the same property. With most of my mortgage payments going to interest for the first few years, my ability to break even before I moved would have been highly dependent on what the housing market did in that time...the most likely outcome was a financial wash, but I'd be assuming a lot of risk that I don't have by renting for now. If market conditions in your area are such the you can charge enough rent to pay your mortgage, more power to you (and I'm jealous ), but it would be a mistake to assume in general that the math adds up.
Last edited by cardguy; November 6th, 2009 at 07:16 pm.
- November 6th, 2009, 07:09 pm
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peg099 peg099 is offline
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D_Lion wrote :
I get upset at the subsidy-seeking, "child support should impoverish men due to obligation," mentality.
I have not heard anyone make an argument in favor of impoverishing men.

That is entirely a figment of your imagination.
- November 6th, 2009, 07:09 pm
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D_Lion D_Lion is offline
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peg099 wrote :
I have not heard anyone make an argument in favor of impoverishing men.

That is entirely a figment of your imagination.

The most common outcome of divorce in the men I know is he is paying for his house, which he bought from his labor, while his non-working or minimally-working ex-partner lives in it. Half these men are living in junky apartments and half live with parents.

That is impoverishment.
- November 6th, 2009, 07:15 pm
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D_Lion D_Lion is offline
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cardguy wrote :
highly dependent on what the housing market did in that time...

Absolutely true (and Jo knows that.) Still housing in the US is 100 basis points over CPI in the long run, and ought to be quite a bit over that in the next four years.

Plus, Jo is permitted two houses duductible interest, so put her marginal rate into the equation.
- November 6th, 2009, 07:20 pm
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D_Lion wrote :
The most common outcome of divorce in the men I know is he is paying for his house, which he bought from his labor, while his non-working or minimally-working ex-partner lives in it. Half these men are living in junky apartments and half live with parents.

That is impoverishment.
Has it occurred to your data is anecdotal rather than systematically collected, and subject to a very strong selection bias?
- November 6th, 2009, 07:20 pm
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D_Lion D_Lion is offline
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Of course.

I never claimed to associate with people rich enough to pay for two houses.

Are you denying that the female predominately gets possession, and flow of funds ties to possession and relative earnings (or lack thereof)?
- November 6th, 2009, 07:24 pm
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D_Lion wrote :
Absolutely true (and Jo knows that.) Still housing in the US is 100 basis points over CPI in the long run, and ought to be quite a bit over that in the next four years.
Yes, but when you're buying a selling in a short time frame, transaction costs and maintenance expenses/tax can easily be larger than any principal gained in the time period. Simply having the price rise faster than CPI isn't enough to guarantee a positive ROI, not to mention the opportunity cost of investing the down payment in other ways. Ultimately, it may make sense or not for an individual situation, but my observation has been that as a short term investment a house is pretty risky relative to other options.
- November 6th, 2009, 07:25 pm
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I practiced in family court for a number of years. Custody was almost always granted to the parent who provided the primary caretaking of the children. In many/most cases, this was the mother. The couple had decided that dad would work and mom would stay home with the kids (income disparity between the sexes might influence that decision). When the parents split, judges do not want to move the kids if they don't have to since it's already extremely difficult on the kids just to have their parents divorce. So the mother often gets primary custody and dad pays child support.

These days, both parents are more likely to work outside the house, and dads are WAY more likely to be deeply involved in the raising of the kids, doing the laundry, cooking, shuffling to extracurricular events, etc. So you see more and more shared custody agreements, or orders. Sometimes this can be really hard on the kid as s/he is bounced around so much, but enough cannot be said about how important it is for BOTH parents to be really involved with the kids. If one parent is really terrible, the kid will figure it out and generally slow or stop contact with that parent when s/he is of age to not visit.

As for those men who do not pursue child support, I think you should go after it. First of all, just as with fathers, BOTH parents need to contribute financially to the child's upbringing. Letting mothers off the hook helps no one. I had far more trouble getting moms to pay than I did dads. So far as I know (and this is not legal advise) there is no reason you couldn't put the child support into a bank account for the child to access later to help get a car, or college tuition, or whatever. Child support belongs to the CHILD and is for the CHILD. By not pursuing the child support, you are depriving your CHILD of the support of the parent, and every child deserves support from both parents.
- November 6th, 2009, 07:26 pm
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cardguy cardguy is offline
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D_Lion wrote :
Of course.

I never claimed to associate with people rich enough to pay for two houses.

Are you denying that the female predominately gets possession, and flow of funds ties to possession and relative earnings (or lack thereof)?
Well, I haven't seen custody statistics lately...my guess is that women still have the edge in that department, but it has certainly been equalizing in recent years.

You asking me to confirm irrelevant information, however, as the irrational element is not the observation the child support involves a transfer of wealth (anyone can see that), but your perception of what that wealth transfer typically means for the parties involved. Your perception is that this is of a magnitude that allows women to live lives of idle luxury while men are in squalor. I suggest (and all data presented thus far supports this) that your perception is out of step with reality, and your personal sample is subject to quite a bit of selection bias (I can talk more about these biases if you please).
Last edited by cardguy; November 6th, 2009 at 07:32 pm.
- November 6th, 2009, 07:30 pm
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