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neardc neardc is offline
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cardguy wrote :
Thanks for providing an external source, neardc. It's outrageous that such practices still exist, due to the harm to cause both to unsuspecting husbands and the vast majority of women who are receiving child support without such deception.
It's more complicated than that, though. Do you differentiate between deliberate deception, and a woman who believes that her husband is the biological father? What if a man has raised the child for 15 years as his own and then discovers that he is not the biological parent? Should he then just disown the child who loves him as a father and no longer be responsible for that child's care? At a point, the biology is really just incidental to the relationship and certainly not the primary issue when establishing responsibility for ongoing care.
- November 6th, 2009, 03:54 pm
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D_Lion D_Lion is offline
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cardguy wrote :
You're welcome to hold me to the same standard.

"Thousands of dollars" is every data point I have, and all posts which have disclosed this value here.

I know that national-scope data is weighted toward poor people, but that is not germane to myself and most of the people posting here.

The figures cited by other posters as percent of income awarded, amount to thousounds per month to me, and likely to most of us. Thus, those are the values which are germane to our discussion.
- November 6th, 2009, 03:57 pm
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neardc neardc is offline
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You know, D_L, you keep contradicting yourself. On the one hand you claim to be near poverty and on the brink of homelessness, but at the same time you say that you would be liable for "thousands of dollars" a month for child support because of your income.

This simply does not compute.
- November 6th, 2009, 04:01 pm
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Can_I_just_be_Jo Can_I_just_be_Jo is offline
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neardc wrote :
(Since your biggest expenses are the internet, women, and liquor, I would bet that most people could squeeze $200/month out of your budget for child support if needed and still leave you with food on the table and a roof over your head...lol)
Is this really a fair assessment. For the sake of argument lets say he cuts out these things so that him and his ex are just equal. Yes I understand not reality still...So he sits at home, sober, no woman and no one to talk to online. She has the same problem so she walks down to the bar picks up a guy and he pays for everything. No wonder the man doesn't want to buy drinks for women.
- November 6th, 2009, 04:08 pm
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FruitaBu FruitaBu is offline
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Thousands of dollars a month??? Never met a woman in that position in my life.
- November 6th, 2009, 04:10 pm
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neardc neardc is offline
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Can_I_just_be_Jo wrote :
Is this really a fair assessment. For the sake of argument lets say he cuts out these things so that him and his ex are just equal. Yes I understand not reality still...So he sits at home, sober, no woman and no one to talk to online. She has the same problem so she walks down to the bar picks up a guy and he pays for everything. No wonder the man doesn't want to buy drinks for women.
Lol...He can still get internet for free at the library or another public hotspot, take his lady friends for walks in the park or out for a low-cost meal every now and then, and drink....water with a lemon slice (or, try to get women to buy him drinks at the bar...lol).

So, yeah... if those things are costing you more than food or housing, then there is room for trimming.
- November 6th, 2009, 04:13 pm
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D_Lion D_Lion is offline
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neardc wrote :
Could you please indicate what you consider to be a livable wage in your area?

As an educated person, I consider it a reasonable baseline expectation that I live in a neighborhood where my neighbors are educated.

Currently, using the rule of thumb that houses are affordable at 2.5 times pre-tax income, my house requires about $150 k, however my neighbors are not educated, so I think I am not in an appropriate neighborhood. This leaves me to guess, but the guess is more than twice that salary.

***

To state it another way, my father told me he made “$60 k after taxes” when I was a child (about 25 years ago.) I checked in the internet, and he paid $63 k for his house (about 30 years ago.) Today, that is a $600 k house. Concordantly, I need about $570 k, net of tax effects, to replicate my father’s standard of living at today’s costs.

Logically, a two income couple is close to half that individually (then add $100 k for the second set of expenses; roughly $1.2 M pre-tax.).

This income would presumably provide for a family (assuming a non-materialistic partner, which is not the norm for my dating experience.)

Of course, my father had relatively secure employment, pension, and other benefits – all things which can no longer be counted on. I do not have readily an adjustment for these losses. Or the effect from longer work hours and the concomitant need to outsource domestic services at additional cost.

***

You are attacking me unreasonably: those are my biggest avoidable expenses (i.e., non survival essentials), not my biggest expenses (which are, or course, taxes, interest, housing principal, groceries, insurance, etc.)
- November 6th, 2009, 04:14 pm
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Can_I_just_be_Jo Can_I_just_be_Jo is offline
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FruitaBu wrote :
Thousands of dollars a month??? Never met a woman in that position in my life.
Four kids, $1,000 a month, it would actually be higher if I didn't get spousal support. I think I have said this a million times but my ex is well off. It is based on income and the childrens current lifestyle. I have been told a lot my settlement is above the norm. Then again you look at some of the divorced women in my parrish and community they think I am living in abject poverty and it is cute that I work.

It is and always will be relative to where you are at. I don't need my home but my kids were raised there. It is their home. Maybe I am being stupid or selfish but to lose that home when I know I can afford it myself with just four years education. Meh, maybe I am rationalizing and have actually sold my soul.
Last edited by Can_I_just_be_Jo; November 6th, 2009 at 04:26 pm.
- November 6th, 2009, 04:20 pm
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neardc neardc is offline
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Those income figures are for the very tippy top of the population. They are not what the vast majority of people earn or ever expect to earn. They are many times what is needed to support oneself either alone or with a family. That is just fantasy land for practically everyone in the country (including your region). I'm afraid that I just can't see your arguments as credible if this is your reference framework.

I give up... lol
- November 6th, 2009, 04:20 pm
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D_Lion D_Lion is offline
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I consider it a reasonable expectation that I, with comparable skills and work ethic, replicate my father's standard of living (ought to be more considering a generation of productivity growth.)

Average data which include the kind of people who don't bother showing up for work on time, are not germane - and you know it.
- November 6th, 2009, 04:24 pm
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