Sassafras54 is online now Sassafras54 — Advice Official Moderator Post #1  July 9,2010, 8:15am
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So ... A man has been arrested in LA for the killings of 14 people over decades. He was found because his son was convicted of something and had his DNA taken, and it was found to be family-related to the serial killer's DNA. So detectives investigated his family, got Dad's DNA through a ruse, and found him to be a match.

Yay! A serial killer is off the streets!

What do you think? Some relative of yours goes to jail so you get investigated? Is that ok?
 
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tweet37 is offline tweet37 Post #2  July 9,2010, 8:36am
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Sassafras54 wrote :
What do you think? Some relative of yours goes to jail so you get investigated? Is that ok?
As long as the long arm of the law doesn't break the law itself,.. yeah,... it's OK with me. The ruse is probably not OK with the guy's lawyer though and I'm sure he'll be arguing that one in court.
 
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TheThinker is offline TheThinker Post #3  July 9,2010, 9:38am
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Sassafras54 wrote :
Yay! A serial killer is off the streets!

What do you think? Some relative of yours goes to jail so you get investigated? Is that ok?
To be clearer, though, I don't think the father was investigated solely because the son was arrested.

IIRC, the father had been a suspect because of his employment, living location, etc..and the police had no reason to swab him yet.

When the son's DNA came back as "familial" to the LA killer's DNA left at the scenes of the killings(which it can because of the database itself) it then caused the police to get the DNA for the father.
The way that they did it, through the pizza scrap taken(which may or may not prove to be legal) is probably something that invades on privacy..
I think if nothing else, this case may set up a legal right for a DA's office to obtain a cheek swabs if a match comes up as "familial"...and/or, if there is enough suspicion from other facts..(which in this case, there was)
 
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Sassafras54 is online now Sassafras54 — Advice Official Moderator Post #4  July 9,2010, 11:44am
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What is IIRC?

The paper didn't say whether the police had ever considered the guy a suspect or not.

If they did, it's possible they targeted relatives of his for prosecution, in order to have a reason to go after him?

(I have a friend who's a prosecutor in LA. She was sure a guy was guilty of home invasion, armed robbery, and rape but they did not have enough to prosecute. She prosecuted him for a minor unrelated offense that's classified as a sexual offense, so got his DNA, which then was the evidence they need to prosecute him for the home invasion.) (There's a whole 'nother story in that ... the DA did not want to prosecute the guy, for political reasons.)

I doubt the ruse will be a problem. The guy left DNA on food scraps and silverware, glass at a public restaurant, and a detective pretended to be a waiter and picked it up. It was discarded stuff, which the police can legally access. They do that stuff on Law and Order all the time! So surely it's how it works in real life? lol.

The paper said the use of "familial DNA" was ground-breaking and will probably get argued in court.
 
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D_Lion is offline D_Lion Post #5  July 9,2010, 3:39pm
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This is the future, like it or not.

It was the past, too, when we think about how essential ancestry and breeding were to everything.

Considering how children of successful alumni are almost guaranteed admission to the best schools and jobs, this is simply a fact of life.

That which can find the guilty can also exonerate the innocent. As an innocent person, I find value in this.
 
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D_Lion is offline D_Lion Post #6  July 9,2010, 3:39pm
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This is the future, like it or not.

It was the past, too, when we think about how essential ancestry and breeding were to everything.

Considering how children of successful alumni are almost guaranteed admission to the best schools and jobs, this is simply a fact of life.

That which can find the guilty can also exonerate the innocent. As an innocent person, I find value in this.
 
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lindseyk is offline lindseyk Post #7  July 9,2010, 4:51pm

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Better to have him off the streets than still out there killing people. I think police would be shirking their duty not to follow any and all leads, even those gained through investigations of others. Clearly, the son's DNA flagged something in the system that prompted law officers to dig deeper. Fourteen people are dead, leaving families to mourn for them. I can only imagine how grateful they must be to know their loved ones' killer has been identified. My concern is for them, not for the criminal. I don't really care if the son's DNA tipped police off or that they picked up the murderer's garbage to catch him. Since when does the criminal's rights trump those of the victims and their families?

What if this hit a little closer to home? I know if it was one of my relatives who had been murdered, I would want the police to catch the murderer by fair means or foul. I wouldn't want to know that a serial killer or any other kind of murderer got a pass because a familial DNA link was considered unfair. Use the DNA!
Last edited by lindseyk; July 9,2010 at 4:55pm.
 
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D_Lion is offline D_Lion Post #8  July 9,2010, 4:57pm
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"Arrest" and "convict" are not the same thing.

Criminals' rights are in the Constitution, amoung other places.

That the "apple doesn't fall far from the tree" is a belief that should not be allowed to overcome due process and presumption of innocence.

There is of course the pragmatic concern, that with suspiscion directed in the wrong place, more crimes will be committed, as well.
 
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TheThinker is offline TheThinker Post #9  July 9,2010, 5:24pm
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Sassafras54 wrote :
What is IIRC?
short for: "if I recall correctly".....

wrote :
The paper didn't say whether the police had ever considered the guy a suspect or not.
I read different reports online that said he was considered a suspect(though he may not have been a prime suspect..)before the son was arrested.

wrote :
If they did, it's possible they targeted relatives of his for prosecution, in order to have a reason to go after him?
the son was not "targeted"...he was arrested on a felony weapons charge. That's why the son was swabbed, to try and match another crime.
 
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Sassafras54 is online now Sassafras54 — Advice Official Moderator Post #10  July 9,2010, 10:29pm
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This case does not bother me at all ... glad they got him, sounds fair to me, it was clever of the police.

But. Right now, the police cannot take your DNA unless you've been convicted of certain types of crimes, or they get a warrant. Right? So presumably the police in this case could not get a warrant; thus they had to use a (legal) ruse to get the DNA.

So it must be the case right now that just knowing from DNA evidence that an unknown suspect is an unidentified relative of a known criminal is not enough to get a warrant on the relatives.

Correct? That actually seems right to me.

If the police knew that it must have been a relative of your cousin who committed some crime, should they be able to search your house? H'mmm.
 
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