D_Lion is online now D_Lion Post #11  July 10,2010, 7:17am
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I would say from personal values, I do not agree that any function of law enforcement or government should be permitted to take any action toward or against me, due to any real, threatened, or feared action buy any relative or acquaintenance. (Since I can not have control over another person.)

In the circumstance you describe, yes, I do believe searching of private property due to a familial realationship is common.

Varius "ruses" have been challenged and upheld - the logic seems to be that nobody forced someone to take any bait which is left out.

Also, even though a specific charge might be dismissed, it is often the case that persons engaged in crime can be charged with many things (or have outstanding warrants), thus giving basis to hold them regardless.
 
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TheThinker is offline TheThinker Post #12  July 10,2010, 7:35am
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And now for something completely different...

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Sassafras54 wrote :

If the police knew that it must have been a relative of your cousin who committed some crime, should they be able to search your house? H'mmm.
not unless they get a warrant.

The case will probably be argued on two points, it would seem.. whether someone can have DNA obtained without their consent(no matter what method is involved) and/or what constitutes privacy, as an individual.
I'm looking forward to the results...this should have a huge impact on similar cases in the future.
Last edited by TheThinker; July 10,2010 at 7:41am.
 
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zephyr1973 is offline zephyr1973 Post #13  July 20,2010, 7:28pm
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Here's the thing: The DNA was obtained, it linked the man to the crimes - what I do not get is why this is wrong at all - no matter how it was obtained. I work as a mental health therapist in a pretty high-crime neighborhood with some of the most horrible things you have ever heard of - if anything could PROVE who the killers were in some of the cases, it would be wonderful.

There is a reason so many people liked the character Omar from The HBO series "The Wire" - he went after the bad guys and did things the police were not allowed to do. Those of us that deal with that crap daily and see the fallout only wish for something as simple as DNA. Why does obtaining it have to be so difficult?

I am all for personal freedom, but freedom comes with a price - the collective good has to balance with the personal freedoms or else none of it will matter or work. I need to feel safe - and I cannot feel safe if murderous people are allowed to roam freely due to laws that bind detectives and those that prosecute.

I am not an attorney, but many of my friends are. I understand civil liberties, and I get some of the "slippery slopes", however, I am at the point where I prefer less civil liberties to more safety. Maybe that's what living in Baltimore has done to me, but so be it - at least I know the "other side" now. I thought I knew it when I lived in some other major cities, but this place is so different than anyplace I have ever lived. Criminals run this city.

Sorry for the rant. I'm just tired of non-criminals making it easier for the criminals to go free - and for what?
 
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D_Lion is online now D_Lion Post #14  July 22,2010, 8:45pm
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zephyr1973 wrote :
Here's the thing: The DNA was obtained, it linked the man to the crimes - what I do not get is why this is wrong at all - no matter how it was obtained.

Get a clue why this is America and not Iraqi Kurdistan.

Maybe I get some armoured vehicles and 25 men with automatic rifles and kick in a few doors in your neighborhood, knowing full well that one in four will have drugs, guns, or cash not in accordance with the lawful income producable by the skill-sets of the persons involved, and use that as a basis to arrest people.

Better yet, why not just look at the skin color or something - since that tends to look the same on people who are related.
 
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Warthog is offline Warthog Post #15  July 22,2010, 9:34pm
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I've been in a Y-DNA genealogy surname project for many years. We use the Y chromosome to determine the male line in any family. All males in a line of decent (blood relatives) will match. However, what I've found in my line are lots of mutations and the DNA model predicts a very distant relationship (up to 20 generations), in fact in my family I have such a person who is a 4th cousin. That's really close when talking about a possible 20-40 generations of distance. So, I'm curious how they are making the familial connection. A "Y" chromosome connection would be ludicrous as evidence. Another thought, such testing is valid for males only. Is it discrimination? Sauce for the goose...
Key word: Mutating genes! There are a lot of them.
 
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zephyr1973 is offline zephyr1973 Post #16  July 28,2010, 8:34pm
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D_Lion wrote :
Get a clue why this is America and not Iraqi Kurdistan.

Maybe I get some armoured vehicles and 25 men with automatic rifles and kick in a few doors in your neighborhood, knowing full well that one in four will have drugs, guns, or cash not in accordance with the lawful income producable by the skill-sets of the persons involved, and use that as a basis to arrest people.

Better yet, why not just look at the skin color or something - since that tends to look the same on people who are related.
What does this have to do with connecting a person to a crime via DNA? It was his - it matched the samples - would you prefer he go free? Your argument is non-sensical as it does not address the actual situation. Your use of an extreme example in this and other posts is interesting.
 
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D_Lion is online now D_Lion Post #17  July 29,2010, 8:03pm
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Evidence which was obtained by innapropriate means has traditionally been found inadmissable evidence.

As a matter of personal values, I prefer to err on the side of allowing the guilty to go free, than the innocent to be unjustly punished.

Governments do not have a stellar reputation for the accuracy of criminal convictions.

And intruducing new powers to governments makes "slippery slope" a germane debate.
 
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zephyr1973 is offline zephyr1973 Post #18  July 30,2010, 7:52pm
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So, the DNA that was found on the victims that matched the suspect should not be used (even though it was conclusive) because it was linked as a result of possible illegal means? I guess this just means to me that red tape means more than the evidence itself. This is what I do not agree with - and do not support. It's technicalities such as this that allow criminals to get off. That is not how justice is served, in my opinion. Supporting red tape over science is just mind-blowing for me. Perhaps it works for others.

Again, I am speaking from the perspective of dealing day in and day out with the families of some of the most terrible crimes in our city. I have worked with gangs and I have been IN a drive-by during a counseling session. I serve a very UNDER-SERVED population riddled with crime and that is the poor and disenfranchised. Their suffering is ongoing and often these technicalities are what allow the killers to go free that later end up killing one of their family members. One such situation recently happened so this is not conjecture. I would love to say it is an isolated event, but sadly, it's more-so the regular situation here, in the fair city of "Bodymore".
 
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