A mixed day: lessons learned from my nephew, sensitivities, and putting the proverbial guard down.


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justme27 is offline justme27 Post #1  February 15,2010, 8:59pm
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Today I spent the day with my sister, my brother-in-law and my three nephews. My oldest nephew is in a gifted program much like my sister and I were. My youngest nephew, who is nine, has repeatedly tried to enter the same gifted program but his IQ test does not come up sufficiently high for the program--you have to be in the top 5% to be considered gifted.

My youngest nephew was bored and I wanted to check out electric guitars, so together we drove down to a local music store. On the drive to the music store, my nephew asked, "Who do you think the smartest person in the world is?"
I responded,
"Well, I'm not certain but I believe it is Stephen Hawking."
He said,
"Yes, I know who he is but how do we know he is the smartest man in the world? I mean there can be some guy out there who has never been given an IQ test and you know what maybe he is the smartest man in the world. Or you know what maybe some poor guy out there is the smartest man in the world, but we would never know it because we never tested him"
I responded,
"You know you are right about that. So what does that tell you about IQ tests"
He responded,
"It tells you that success in life is how you handle life and not how smart you are."
I responded,
"That's probably correct."
He then added,
"Also, supposing Stephen Hawking is the smartest man in the world well I'm sure he knows his ideas but I'm certain that he is not well-rounded."
I responded,
"That's a good point. So what's the lesson learned there?"
He responded,
"We should want to be well-rounded."


To be continued...
 
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KungFuFtr is offline KungFuFtr Post #2  February 16,2010, 1:32am
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Sounds pretty deep for a nine year old...
 
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justme27 is offline justme27 Post #3  February 16,2010, 7:48am
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KungFuFtr wrote :
Sounds pretty deep for a nine year old...
Thanks Kungfuftr, I swear it was an honest to God discussion we had while driving to the guitar shop. To be honest though, I suspect this is something he has either discussed with his mother or his therapist before, because he may have felt bad that he hasn't been able to pass the IQ test. We have no doubt that he is gifted but he suffers from a little bit of anxiety and we believe that effects his test taking.
 
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neardc is offline neardc Post #4  February 16,2010, 6:02pm
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justme27 wrote :
Thanks Kungfuftr, I swear it was an honest to God discussion we had while driving to the guitar shop. To be honest though, I suspect this is something he has either discussed with his mother or his therapist before, because he may have felt bad that he hasn't been able to pass the IQ test. We have no doubt that he is gifted but he suffers from a little bit of anxiety and we believe that effects his test taking.
Well, geez... it sounds like there is an awful lot of pressure on him, especially for such a young kid. He hasn't been able to "pass" the IQ test? Who says that about a child? Why not just let him be the great kid he no doubt is without all of the pressure to "succeed" as a 9-year old? Let him shine on his own instead of having to compete at that level with his sibling. I can hardly imagine how tough that must be for him...

Your nephew sounds terrific, but your post actually makes me sad...
 
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justme27 is offline justme27 Post #5  February 16,2010, 6:42pm
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No Neardc, it's not like that at all. My sister definitely does not impose standards onto him. He is rather competitive on his own. On the drive to the guitar store I didn't bring up the discussion he did. I actually was unaware he took the test again this year; in fact, the last time I spoke to my sister regarding the subject a while back she indicated that she would opt not to have him go through the testing process. I'm sure it was his idea to go through testing once again.

I actually have a feeling this time he is going to pass because he said it felt really easy this time. However, I don't believe he will go to the gifted school because he already has a lot of good friends at his current school. No one is going to force him to go to the gifted school, in fact I would prefer he stay with his friends.

It's always a strange thing about this site. Whenever you discuss IQ, money or success there is always a little bit of umbrage involved. Why is that? I have my listening hat on, although it appears others don't--hint, hint Neardc
 
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neardc is offline neardc Post #6  February 17,2010, 3:49pm
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Kids don't develop those feelings out of thin air. Something is making him feel that he "should" compete to be in the program. No matter how bright, a 7 or 8 or 9 year old child simply does not have the cognitive development to fully understand and assess the implications here (that's the responsibility of adults). I would just want to be sensitive to that. What comes across from your comments (not just this thread) is that being defined as gifted is an important part of your identity and that it is viewed as important in your family as well (otherwise, why make mention of it when others here who clearly also fit into that category don't?).

That's what I "hear," anyway.

I'm not taking umbrage with the fact that the issue is tested intelligence. Rather, with a young child feeling this kind of pressure. My reaction would have been the same if the pressure were to make a particular elite sports team or win some type of elite prize or whatever.
 
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D_Lion is offline D_Lion Post #7  February 17,2010, 4:07pm
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But that's the way the world works now.

Anybody watching the olympics can see the childs getting ski coaching at 2 years old.

People who follow business media may remember the defense offered in an invesment-research case where an overstated compnay outlook was allegded to be due to a desire to get a child into an elite Manhattan school (a child of 5, if I recall.)

With so few people amounting to anything, and increasingly-outsized rewards accruing to increasingly-few people, one must face, and surmount, pressure to succeed at every age.
 
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justme27 is offline justme27 Post #8  February 17,2010, 5:17pm
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neardc wrote :
Kids don't develop those feelings out of thin air. Something is making him feel that he "should" compete to be in the program. No matter how bright, a 7 or 8 or 9 year old child simply does not have the cognitive development to fully understand and assess the implications here (that's the responsibility of adults). I would just want to be sensitive to that.
I'm curious what are the implications? Also, did you read the dialog between us correctly? I think he made it very clear that IQ is not that meaningful in living a well developed life. He stated two things, which I agreed with, that IQ was not an accurate indicator and second that there were more important characteristics in life. Are you sure you are not just responding to the word IQ?

In regards to the "should," what are the alternatives? We all feel we "should" be doing something. You for instance felt you "should" respond with criticism? Or were you instead doing what you "feel." Which do you think is more rational of the two?

wrote :
What comes across from your comments (not just this thread) is that being defined as gifted is an important part of your identity and that it is viewed as important in your family as well (otherwise, why make mention of it when others here who clearly also fit into that category don't?).
I think if you go back to most of my threads, you won't find me discussing my intellect. Are you sure that is not an impression you take of me from one or two comments made in the past? You say I mention of it more than other posters; I come back with why is it that you remember it? Maybe we both have a hang up about intellect. I sufficiently so to state it and you sufficiently so to remember it?

wrote :
That's what I "hear," anyway.

I'm not taking umbrage with the fact that the issue is tested intelligence. Rather, with a young child feeling this kind of pressure. My reaction would have been the same if the pressure were to make a particular elite sports team or win some type of elite prize or whatever.
You used the elite word twice, are you afraid of elitism? Is elitism a hang-up of yours? If so, why?

Wow, I like these new listening skills I'm developing, it really helps me better understand people.
 
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Faira is offline Faira Post #9  February 17,2010, 5:31pm
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justme27 wrote :
Wow, I like these new listening skills I'm developing, it really helps me better understand people
Listening involves trying to understand the other person's position; you've just barraged her with a bunch of defensive questions that make assumptions about her and her motives, and demanded that she prove herself worthy of being listened to before you'll actually do it.

You're most likely capable of truly listening, applying your new skills, to her; whether or not you will choose to remains to be seen.
 
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neardc is offline neardc Post #10  February 17,2010, 5:42pm
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Faira wrote :
Listening involves trying to understand the other person's position; you've just barraged her with a bunch of defensive questions that make assumptions about her and her motives, and demanded that she prove herself worthy of being listened to before you'll actually do it.

You're most likely capable of truly listening, applying your new skills, to her; whether or not you will choose to remains to be seen.
Thank you, Faira.

Justme -- Honestly, your response is so off-base and bereft of the "listening skills" that you're attempting to exercise that I'm not going to invest my time in responding.

(My sympathies do remain with your nephew, though! )
 
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