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eHA_Admin_Lori is offline eHA_Admin_Lori — Advice Official Moderator Post #1  July 29,2009, 3:21pm
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What do you think of this?
Arizona girl's attack sheds light on se xual assualt in Liberia - CNN.com

Does the parents' belief that their daughter's assault has brought shame to the family - and that her attackers should be freed - make them unfit parents?
 
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Mokkesofie is offline Mokkesofie Post #2  July 30,2009, 5:04am
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eH_Advice_Admin_Lori wrote :
What do you think of this?
Arizona girl's attack sheds light on rape in Liberia - CNN.com

Does the parents' belief that their daughter's assualt has brought shame to the family - and that her attackers should be freed - make them unfit parents?
More like uneducated people/parents. It is no excuse that it is what happened for many years in Liberia, that they were used to it happening. They are sending their daughter (and her siblings) the wrong message which they (the children) will grow up with thinking it is correct. By doing that, nothing will change. Furthermore, with the parents having this opinion, what will happen to the daughter if she comes back to the parents? Will she be punished for "bringing shame" on the family? Will she be ostracised by her community?
You see this kind of behaviour in so many western countries where people from non-western countries come and settle down amongst their own without wanting to try and understand their new country, without wanting to change and settle in their new surroundings, without trying to blend in. I believe it all boils down to a lack of education.
 
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timeless2 is offline timeless2 Post #3  July 30,2009, 7:52am
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I agree and it takes people who are willing to think beyond the status quo to not only say this is not acceptable but to also take a stand and make it happen.
 
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D_Lion is offline D_Lion Post #4  August 4,2009, 5:39pm
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Okay ... who thinks the west has a right to assert our values into other cultures - many of which are older than ours - and by what mechanisms should we do this?
 
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Wonderwoman402 is offline Wonderwoman402 Post #5  August 4,2009, 6:11pm
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eH_Advice_Admin_Lori wrote :
Does the parents' belief that their daughter's assault has brought shame to the family - and that her attackers should be freed - make them unfit parents?
Yes, I think it does. They are NOT in Liberia... they are in the USA. As a matter of law and moral conscience the rape of children is not tolerated in this country, and it makes no difference whether you were born here or not.

The attackers are the ones who brought shame onto themselves, the girl did not!

I once sat on a jury for a domestic assault case. Both the woman and man were from El Salvador, and the entire case was heard through interpreters. Basically, the woman was upset that her man was unfaithful to her and asked a "witch doctor" for an amulet containing herbs and trinkets designed to keep him faithful. He became enraged when he found out she had this amulet and beat her, leaving bruises, and threatened her with a knife. His defense (and he had an EXCELLENT, articulate attorney on his behalf) was that in their homeland, in their culture, his actions would be completely reasonable. It did not take long for our jury to come to the unanimous conclusion that he was guilty as charged... that his actions were completely unacceptable and against the law in our country.
 
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Wonderwoman402 is offline Wonderwoman402 Post #6  August 4,2009, 6:16pm
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D_Lion wrote :
Okay ... who thinks the west has a right to assert our values into other cultures - many of which are older than ours - and by what mechanisms should we do this?
They are on American soil and subject to the laws and values of our country. Period. The age of their culture is irrelevant.

By what mechanisms should we do this? By enforcing our laws and through education. It can take more than one generation to change their way of thinking. If they prefer the "old country's" way they should return there.
 
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brneyedangel is offline brneyedangel Post #7  August 5,2009, 9:39am
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D_Lion wrote :
Okay ... who thinks the west has a right to assert our values into other cultures - many of which are older than ours - and by what mechanisms should we do this?
My response is to this question, and doesn't consider the article, as I was reading through the posts before going to read the article, and I felt compelled to reply to this first.

While I don't believe we have the right to just pick a country, go there, and say, "You will live our way now," I do believe that if people have chosen to leave their country and come here in search of a better life that they had better be prepared to respect our laws and ways of living and doing things. That doesn't mean we should not respect them or the things that they may be able to teach us, but that they shouldn't be able to say, "I don't like this--change it," and expect it to happen. I am very tired of seeing my way of living compromised due to the fact that someone else who has just stepped foot on our soil thinks that this thing or that thing may be unfair to their beliefs. Too bad! I am not changing your country, so don't change mine, thank you very much. It may not be perfect here, but it's MY HOME. If it's so terrible here, then perhaps they should rethink their choice to be here in the first place.

*getting off my soapbox now...*
 
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gothustartus is offline gothustartus Post #8  August 5,2009, 12:51pm
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D_Lion wrote :
Okay ... who thinks the west has a right to assert our values into other cultures - many of which are older than ours - and by what mechanisms should we do this?
It's impossible for the west not to export its values into other cultures, even if those cultures are closed. We live in an information age where nations cannot maintain isolation, no matter how much they may want to.

I'm all for the sovereignty of a culture, its right to decide its own path without the imposition of values that are perhaps even destructive to it, for no better reason than a big neighbour deciding the rest of the world has to see things its way.
But that right stops at the border. Cross over that border and you are agreeing to abide by the cultural rules of wherever you go to.
I live in a multi-cultural society, there are lots of places i can go to in London that are like entire neighbourhoods transplanted intact from one country to another. In a lot of ways that's fantastic, i believe that it enriches us as a society to have such a broad base of experience and outlook. There are things we can learn from each other, perspectives that can make our lives better. But these neighbourhoods are in England and we have our laws, not perfect laws by any stretch of the imagination but as just as we can manage. If you choose to live in our country then you choose to live by those laws.
Take the issue of female circumcision, a totally barbaric practice illegal throughout the west, yet it is still practised here in dirty backrooms with kitchen knives because it is cultural.

The question is what we ourselves choose to accept into our lives and what we will stand against and say no, not here, no way. We can incorporate the good but the evil must be stood against, to do any less is to condone it by apathy and inaction.
Last edited by gothustartus; August 5,2009 at 9:37pm.
 
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graceventually is offline graceventually Post #9  August 5,2009, 1:29pm
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I found this online. This is from a CNN article on the comments of the Liberian president on this incident:

(CNN) -- The president of Liberia spoke Friday on the sexual assault of an 8-year-old Liberian refugee in Phoenix, Arizona, decrying reports that the parents believe their family has been shamed by the girl.
President Ellen Johnson Sirleaf says the girl, her family and the alleged rapists should receive counseling.




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var CNN_ArticleChanger = new CNN_imageChanger('cnnImgChngr','/2009/CRIME/07/24/liberia.arizona.juvenile.assault/imgChng/p1-0.init.exclude.html',1,1);//CNN.imageChanger.load('cnnImgChngr','imgChng/p1-0.exclude.html');"This is not a question of shame on the family. It is the question of an assault on a young child. That cannot be tolerated," said President Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, speaking by telephone.
Police have charged four boys, ages 9 to 14, in the case. The boys also are Liberian refugees.
"We are so saddened," Sirleaf said. "We are deeply distressed at this behavior on the part of our young Liberians and very saddened at this 8-year-old child who has been so victimized."
Phoenix police say the boys used an offer of chewing gum to lure the girl to a storage shed at an apartment complex on July 16. There, they allege, the four boys restrained and sexually assaulted her.
The 14-year-old was charged as an adult Thursday and will face two counts of sexual assault and one count of kidnapping. The other three boys were charged in juvenile court with sexual assault, and two of them also were charged with kidnapping, Thomas said.
Speaking from Liberia, Sirleaf said the family's reaction to the incident is wrong. "They should help that child who has been traumatized," she said.
She suggested the family members "need serious counseling because, clearly, they are doing something that is no longer acceptable in our society here."

She also called upon Phoenix authorities to counsel the alleged attackers. "They have to pay the penalty, but we also want to make sure that they are counseled ... that they will have an opportunity to change and become useful citizens, not only in the United States but when they return home."
 
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BSLS is offline BSLS Post #10  August 5,2009, 2:00pm
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Oh ok, so we further tramatize the family and the girl by ripping apart their family? That makes sense.

How does that make the Arizona CPS any better than the rapists?

This girl, and this family is going to be so traumatized they may never recover. Welcome to America.
 
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