Ex is poisoning the mind of our children - what to do?

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sc4me Post #1 July 12,2009, 8:33am

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This has been going on for years, but it has become so pronounced that I feel like I need to do something.

First of all, my ex and I do NOT have a good working relationship. She makes promises and then does not keep them and lies continually. So talking about it won't help at all.

The problem is this. We live about 300 miles apart, but she refuses to meet me halfway to arrange visitation. There is nothing in the court order that requires her to because at the time we lived in the same town.

However, she will agree to meet me halfway and then have one of my children call to say she can't and that I will have to drive the entire 300 miles. I can hear her in the background prompting my 12 year old daughter on what to say. She claims that all three of the children have "issues" with me, but up until 2 years ago everything was fine.

Now I call and no one answers the phone (other family members have the same problem so its not just me) no one returns calls and I have no idea what is being said to cause these so-called "issues."

Nothing has changed on my end. I have bent over backwards and driven the full 300 miles (600 roundtrip) at least 6 times in the last year. This last time I stood my ground and insisted that she meet me halfway. She began to curse and call me names and my children were in the car with her. That is what I mean by "poisoning their minds."

My choices are: (1) take her to court (very expensive) (2) keep trying to work it out with her and just ignore her outbursts (3) stand my ground even if it means I see my children less (and worry about explaining it to them when they are older) (4) try to talk to my children now to find out what is going on; ie, what are the issues they have with me. I worry about #4 because I will be doing what she is doing; that is, using the children as a weapon. So far I have managed to avoid that. (I refuse to talk about their mother when I am with them)

I spoke with an attorney and he estimated 15k to take her to court. That does not include the cost of a Guardian for the minor children. (the oldest is 21, then 15, and 12.)

I would appreciate some advice.

Thanks

k9force Post #2 July 12,2009, 9:03am

wishes Mother Nature would make up her mind!

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Sorry I can't offer any advice (I'm not a parent, so don't feel qualified!) but I do say "kudos" to you for being the bigger person and not bashing your ex in front of your children. I know of too many parents who have done this and, like you say, poisoned their kids' minds against the other parent. And it stinks that it costs so much to take legal action. Hope you come up with a solution soon, for your sake and the kids'.

Bouffy Post #3 July 12,2009, 9:03am

isn't as easy to see through as you think.

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Get the children their own lawyer and have them decide who they want to move in with. After they get old enough they get the option of which parent they want to be with.
If she's being controlling and possessive like that then it'll work in your favor.

Make notes and record conversations. It's evidence in court. Just let the law decide. If you present your case honestly through a competent lawyer then it'll go well.

When the kids get their own lawyer have them express their desires and move from there.

My cousin is in a similar situation with two children. His ex sends them to school without lunches and half the time not at all! If you are in a position to protect your children then do what you need to. Don't pull any punches if you really feel she's slighting you and your children. Don't get mad but just become relentless. Grind her down until she starts throwing emotional bombs at you that you can take note of and use on her in court. When she gets mad, write it down, when she does hateful things, don't get mad. When she's unreliable and breaks promises, write that down too.

The more things you write down with dates and times the better off you'll be. Just be honest and complete in your collection of data.

Its factual so it'll hold up in court. And don't do anything that she can get back at you with. Be perfect and do everything for the kids. Drive that 600 miles, take her baloney until you have a case and then move against her. Don't lead on anything, just be silent until you pounce from the shadows!

yeoww Post #4 July 12,2009, 9:22am

wishes you all the very best!

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sc4me,

My heart goes out to you, and I'm posting my experience because I want you to know that you're not alone, and that I believe there is hope.

I'm in a very similar situation when it comes to the mind-poisoning, only I don't have to deal with visitation logistics as much as you do, because my ex and I live in the same town. I have 12- and 13-year-old children who constantly hear from their dad and his posse about how terrible a mother I am (I know this because they tell their grandma, my mother, what is said).

Here's something else I believe,though, having had friends who have gone through similar situations: eventually the truth will out, and your kids will recognize that you're a good dad and that you were there for them. It may take awhile, but it does happen. And I believe that my kids run some of the more outrageous stuff by my mom because they view her as a neutral party, on some level they know that what's going on with their dad is strange, and they know that she'll tell me what's happening. (If they spoke to me directly, it would constitute a betrayal of their dad. Divorce is hardest, I believe, on the children.)

When I found out he was sending them to school without lunches and letting them stay home alone at night into the wee hours (when they were much younger), I contacted Child Protective Services only to find out that at least in California, this did not constitute abuse, and I had no legal standing. I don't know what the laws are concerning minors where you live, but here, the approach seems to be to let the bad thing happen and then deal with the fallout, rather than taking a proactive approach. It's extremely frustrating.

In the meantime, I've found that the best strategy is to take the high road (don't descend to your ex's level by reviling her in kind), and love your kids no matter what.

But it's agonizing, I do know. I too am unable to hire an attorney to deal with my ex-husband; I just paid off the bill from our divorce! So I have elected to continue to try to work with him to the best of my ability and move on with my life as best I can.

Hang in there. It sounds like you're doing everything right, in my opinion. You can't control your ex's behavior; all you can do is stay on course yourself. Best of luck to you.

Last edited by yeoww; July 12,2009 at 9:28am. Reason: pre-caffeine bad grammar

j0hn8andy Post #5 July 12,2009, 9:27am

.....yes, she.....Sweeps past softly, without a sigh.....

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I'm going to tell you this right up front. I initiated the divorce with my first husband. But it was amiable on both our parts. No grudges. So that's where I'm coming from.

I don't know what the "issues" are with your ex-wife. I do know there are two sides to every story. That's my perspective.

My first husband had been married and had a daughter 400 miles from us. He didn't even pay child support till he married me. So some repairs were needed there.

He did repair things. When his daughter was small, we drove the entire distance, stayed in hotels, etc. When she got old enough, we paid to fly her back & forth. At first he flew down & got her, later she flew alone. But we always paid.

When she was older than 12 (the age the court will listen to a child) we told her if she ever wanted to come live with us, we would go to court over it. She never did.

You have a child age 21. That one is certainly old enough to see you when they choose. I assume he/she has access to a car. Perhaps even has their own phone?

The two younger. The only choice you have is to go back to court. I assume you have legal visitation rights. The court will enforce that. If you insist upon it. And the children do not tell the judge they object.

That's the only thing I can offer. I am very sorry for this situation. I always prefer to see something better, especially when children are involved. I hope things work out for you and the kids.

EMTZ Post #6 July 12,2009, 9:52am

has quickly adapted back to her lazy lifestyle

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Who decided to move which resulted in the two of you now being 300 miles apart?

lacedwithhope — Advice Member-Moderator Post #7 July 12,2009, 10:32am

loves the word "queeved..."

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I have been in a similar situation over the last 10 years. In our case, it is (new) religious fanatacism, ultra-conservatism and criticism of me that he is pushing on our kids. I just try to stay steady and devoted give them a balance, but I know how frustrating and concerning it is. And I know you must ask yourself a million times, "why is she doing this?" The answer is because that's who she is.

What I can add to the previous postings is only this: write her a letter in a neutral and supportive way reiterating that you're willing to split the drive for the exchanges, even though she moved away. In the letter, suggest that you begin mediation to resolve the issue, and include the 1st steps to do so (place, time, phone number to call to change the 1st appointment, whatever). Document this with a (required) signature that the letter was received by her if possible.

If there is no response, then when you proceed to court (which I too believe is your only real option for the younger two children), it will be clear by the letter that you have attempted the good faith approach of mediation first, then court. That may help with shared attorneys fees.

If you moved 300 miles away, then I believe you should make the drive and try to avoid court, unless it is to modify the parenting schedule to consolidate the time you have with the kids. I'm sorry for what you're going through, and good luck.

Last edited by lacedwithhope; July 12,2009 at 10:37am.

chawks64 Post #8 July 12,2009, 10:42am

is keeping warm with her Honey.

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Not all parents are good parents. I'm sorry to hear she is doing that to you, as well as to the children. As awful as my ex was in the first year or two after our divorce, I never made him look bad. I didn't hide the bad things that he did (I honestly couldn't) but I allowed the kids to make up their own minds. He eventually came around. Not a great parent, but a decent one, and I was glad I hadn't villified him.

Kids get older and start to make their own decisions. Trash talking you will eventually come around to bite your ex in the butt. Once the kids start to see you without her filter, they will see you for who you really are, and possibly even resent her for keeping you away during their childhood.

But the problem is that you have to stay in their lives and let them see who you are without her interference. Do they have access to a computer? Maybe you could email or become a Facebook friend (most kids I know would be horrified at the thought of ANY adult on their MySpace page). If you can afford a family cell phone plan, that might work, too, though that might be a little too much in your ex's face.

Whatever you do, don't use the communications with them to ask about their mom or say anything like "I know your mom says bad things about me, but they aren't true." You want your relationship with them to be above the fray and for them not to feel manipulated or like a pawn. Only offer up explanations when asked. Like:
"Why didn't you come see me for my birthday?"
"I wanted to, but I had to work and couldn't drive 600 miles in one day. I really hope you liked the gift I sent."

I know a couple of guys now that have heard apologies from their adult children for not understanding they were being manipulated by their moms. Small consolation now, when your kids are still young, but know that it can turn around eventually.

sc4me Post #9 July 12,2009, 6:48pm

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EMTZ wrote :

Who decided to move which resulted in the two of you now being 300 miles apart?

I did because of the job situation. They live in a small town (where I used to live) and there are very few job opportunities. My company moved me where I lived now ... had I not moved I would have had no job. Like I said, initially it wasn't a problem. It is only in the last 18 months or so that it has become a problem.

The children side with their mother except when they are mad with her and then they call and ask if they can live with me. That always blows over.

If they had their own atty (that is what a Guardian is in this state -- they are always attys) and they were asked they would say they want to stay with their mother. They have been in the community too long and have somewhat of a "Stockholme Syndrome."

What I want to know is what these so-called issues are and what happened about 18 mos. ago to cause this change. My oldest son won't talk to me. I've called and left messages for him and emailed him. He won't call me at all and that is a change from before. For the life of me I cannot figure out what happened.

That just breaks my heart.

BTW, I have kept notes and and a journal of everything that has happened. She has left several nasty messages on my voicemail which I recorded onto a cassette to preserve. I have all the ammunition I need, but if they won't tell the guardian they want to live with me all I would accomplish is getting a court order to force her to meet me halfway. That is hardly worth 15k.

Oh, and I do pay child support. I've never missed a payment and have continued to support my 21 year old as long as he is in school and living at home. That is something I do not have to do.

Just to show you what witch she is, in the recent conversation over where to meet (it did become an argument from her end - I stayed relatively calm.) I said, "I've bent over backwards to accommodate you and you won't meet me halfway," she repeated it back so the children could hear but twisted the words into "I can't believe you don't want to see your children anymore." She does this all the time and I have no way to prove otherwise.

I think I'm left with only one option. Do everything I can to see them as much as I can, write her letters when she acts out and keep a copy and hope she implodes. It's been 6 years now so I doubt she will. If the kids ask me when they are grown I will tell them and show them what I have. That is all I know to do.

outlaw1 Post #10 July 13,2009, 4:20am

Time for the phalanx to go back to work...

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sc4me wrote :

You need to go to MSN or Yahoo and join Fathers Rights groups. Men lose due process which means we are all guilty of being male [under divorce laws this is a heavy $$ burden that can include jail time.] I'm in the same shoes as you and have been fighting Parental Alienation on and off since 1999.

My ex-wife is worse; she's always yelling at everyone. She still yells at her first son, at her boyfriend, at my son and at me. I have no relationship with her and she never informs me about anything per my son, his education, etc.

My son is terrified of her and she has beaten him up. She also beat up her first son [she punched him several times and tried to throw him out a 3rd story window] who turned on her when he was a teenager. I was there, many times I had to stop both of them from coming to blows at each other.

She has always and still does say bad things about me to my son. Sometimes he tells me what she says. She did the same thing to the father of her first son. I hate talking to her as she's one of the most negative & violent person I've ever encountered. In court, she has teflon, except for one Judge who had Sheriffs physically remove her after she threatened my lawyer.

My ex-wife can dance circles around many American women. I don't mean this as an insult. She was born and raised in a former Communist country. Living under Communist rule is a hard life and when you get to America, it's like you already have a PhD in living. Like a Super Virus, you can easily cut thru American life...doing things and taking advantage of the law. It's difficult to explain.

I divorced her but she moved 2,000 miles away. She's the biggest biotch, yells at me when she is in a bad mood [every day which is one reason why I divorced her] & has hunp up on me on her bad days. I've bent over backwards including have paid 100% for all child visitation [she was supposed to have paid 50% for transportation all these years per our divorce agreement.]

I also ignore her verbal outburts; though it makes talking to my son difficult when someone has just blasted you for no reason. Likewise, as the father,
I urge you to ignore her childlike outburts. For me it's difficult because she definitely is an ahole who likewise lied to & abused other men before me. As she is doing to her current boyfriend who's a great guy.

Verbally violent American women today can do almost anything because Judges hesitate to punish the mothers of children [the whole Trillion dollar Divorce Profit Industry hindges on the legal system bribing women.] But were you and I to yell at them? Oh no, that's Domestic Violence.

However this is changing via men protesting the Divorce Courts and laws. You [and I] need evidence she is abusing you. You might need to buy some recording device and record her verbal abuse. Forget your attorney-an attorney in Colorado said something similiar to me years ago-he needed $10,000 to take her to court. When I pressed him he told me "well she doesn't have to listen to the Judges orders." I never hired him.

Instead I suggest you hire a Father friendly Lawyer. You can find out about them thru a Men's Rights and Fathers Rights website. Bottomline Men's Rights are fighting for equal rights while feminist websites deny Parental Alientation even happens.

It's a $ war where the lawyers win and the children lose.
Good luck.

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