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angelofmerci angelofmerci is offline
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There has been times I wonder why I even took the time to post a reply. It seems that certain individuals really are not interested in other people's opinion but rather just want their egos stroked.
- February 13th, 2009, 12:02 pm
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eHA_Admin_Lori eHA_Admin_Lori is offline
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LBMM, an orientation is a great idea and this group will be a nice place for such a post to live. I will work on something and post it ASAP....probably after the holiday weekend.


I definitely don't discount post-holiday and the fact that it's Valentine's Day tomorrow, which is a tough time formany of usSingletons. In fact, I came into this job excited to be part of something that could have a postive impact on people who were perhaps not happy to be single and dealing with the pain of that -- that is something that's always present for some of our Community Members andI never forget it.That plus thestate of the economy and theworld at largemakes for a great deal of frustration and discontent which sometimes is expressed (orescapes) inappropriately.


bravethestorm and beautifulgenius,you are so right about the tone of posts and having to word things carefully sometimes. However, the onus is also on the reader to know that words can read more harshly than are intended, and so maybe don't take things too personally. It's a two-way street and if both posters and readers could give each other the benefit of the doubt, folks would probably get along much better.


angelofmerci, Ican definitely undertand that sentiment of "why did I bother replying". The good thing is that by having offered heartfelt advice, you can feelgood about having extended a kindess to someone else. The fact that the other party was unwilling or unable to accept it as it was intended is their problem, not yours.
- February 13th, 2009, 01:53 pm
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Faira Faira is offline
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eH_Advice_Admin_Lori wrote :
However, the onus is also on the reader to know that words can read more harshly than are intended, and so maybe don't take things too personally. It's a two-way street and if both posters and readers could give each other the benefit of the doubt, folks would probably get along much better.

I've been on message boardsboth as a user and a mod/admin for several years now, and I thinkLori's captured something really important here.


I think we often forget just how much is involved with getting meaning across when wecommunicate with someone face-to-face...we take clues fromthe person's tone, speed and volumeof voice, as well as theirfacial expressions, the gestures they're using, their proximity to us, etc...just seeing print, without any of that, it can be very easy to misread what someone is saying. That's why I've always liked using smileys or using notations like "*rolls eyes*", even though I know it annoys some people, because in some cases I feel the additional context is necessary to get across the tone of what I'm "saying".


When I feel myself starting to get really worked up by something I've read here (or on any message board), before I fly off my handle with my response, I try (and I've got to stop it in the early stages, *before* I get too worked up) to take a break from the computer for ten minutes, on the understanding that if I still feel very strongly about responding after ten minutes, I'll let myself do so. Sometimes I respond after that break, sometimes I don't - but the ten minutes away from the computer is often enough so that, if I do respond, it's much less calmer and more appropriate that it would have been than if I'd posted without a break.
- February 13th, 2009, 06:11 pm
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StatGamer StatGamer is offline
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I haven't been on here long but I believe that we have quite a few trolls that pop up every too often. One could of course ignore them, but people don't. Either they don't realize right away that these are trolls or they like egging them on. In one thread tonight, after I'd pointed out the trolling, people responded and said they liked the whole crazy troll tail tweaking.


That's fine if people want to do that, but when you start to see more posts in all the negative, inflammatory posts than you do in the positive upbeat ones, you have to ask yourself if the community isn't the way it is because it chooses to be that way.


Several of us try to start very positive threads. Sometimes they succeed and sometimes, an inflammatory, angry thread has more appeal.


So I don't know the answer but the trolls stir up trouble, no two ways about it. Of course, some regular posters tend to be more likely to stir up negativity and drama, but to me that's quite different than a troll. Regular members who contribute to the community regularly have a right to voice their opinion, even if it is one that the majority disagree with, or find highly inflammatory. Trolls on the other hand, are here to do nothing but cause trouble.


I don't know if it is possible to get rid of trolls faster. One part of me says getting rid of them would make the atmosphere more harmonious. One part of me says they only survive because people like the angst they stir up. And a third part of me says that banning should be exercised very, very, lightly and when in doubt, leave it out and hope the community's adults ignore.


The fact is, the decision has to be made based on intent: did this person post thus because they genuinely believe this thing that inflames the majority o the community, or did they post this way because they are a troll? And ultimately, who decides intent? Who can truly say?


ll I know is that some of us sniff out the trolls really early and do not enable them and others enjoy the tail tweaking and before you know it, people are angry. I do believe however, that clearly specified guidelines will help in getting rid of trolls.


The community is what it is because it chooses to be that way. We all have the opportunity to not respond to negativity and to support positive threads and to start our own. I do wish we'd do more of the latter and less of the former.
- February 14th, 2009, 10:57 pm
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wildman wildman is offline
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I don't post that often because I have seen the community faltering. Good people don't leave for no reason. I have also seen , to me anyway, innocent posts that seem to go along with the jesting in the thread taken way differently. This goes back to the cliques. It's like a group of cheerleaders sitting at a lunch table and some new girls sits down to interrupt their conversation. We've seen these movies on TV where the leader of the group starts in and all the others follow suit. It reminds me of street gangs. Things have become too negative here. We should be able to get along and embrace each other. We are told to embrace diversity and not have bias, racially or other wise and be politically correct . But that doesn't seem to be the case here. I'm not saying it is wrong to to state opposing views, but what I see is resulting anger in response. Also I don't know what it is here, if we are in the Bermuda Triangle of dating advice forums, but I have seen a significant change in some people who have been here for awhile. They have gone from kind and caring to somewhat cynical and sarcastic. Maybe it is just stress from their lives. Who knows. All I know is there has got to be a way to turn this around to make in enjoyable for all.
- February 15th, 2009, 12:05 am
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Mob mentality-my whole life I have fought for the underdog. I was the single kid who stopped a mob at the schoolyard from pummeling the fat Jewish kid wearing a Yarmulka. Online as a moderator on other websites, I've noticed the same mob mentality. I've had myown websites and had regular users ask me to deleteposts, warn & then ban members.


There's a difference between people who are confused and need clarification or to vent from those who join purposely to create social chaos! They get off on inflicting pain. The more innocent the party is they have targeted, the better. Some of them can be highly charismatic people who becomepopular. They (we?) all have a main theme...often they hide behind humor etc. I'm not talking about the curious (that's me!) or the ones who need to vent (uck that's me too.) I'm talking about those who geniunely have a certain dislike and go against the theme of a website.


I don't know what the banning method here is, but I suggest the clearest language and warningsbefore banning happens. I don't mean to interfere or tell you what to do. Maybeofficial time outs (done secretly so as not to embarrass) would helpcalm down some. A 1st) five minute, then a 2) 30 minute followed by a longer time out might work?


Gender Translators-exactly what it means...people who interpret what one sex means when another is getting upset. Ok maybe too much "officiating" but it's just an idea. Reminds me of a laptop computer device Mandaraxx (?) from Kurt Vonneguts "Galapagos."


Editing and re-writing. Warnings or rather "reminders" about not posting while angry etc might help. Offline I need to re-writea draftthree times to look human. My firstdraft is "I want to strangle you!" My seconddraft is "sometimes I want to swaddle you!" (what the heck is swaddle?) My third revision is usually "hey I'm sorry for being a bonehead. Let's have some internet milk and cookies together..."


People form cliques and new people are "sniffed" and checked, ectc. This can get ugly when one member of a clique objects to a new or "outsider" and the other members gang up. There's also the "if you don't believe the way we do then we will gang up on you and push you off these boards" attitude. This applies to Yahoo and MSN etc.


Same might go for when ganging up on someone? Then again there will always be trolls who enjoy riling up people...


There's also the female vs male language. Call me cynical or prejudiced but the male language is not politicallly correct online. Offline there is more leeway between the sexes. But online words become set in stone...plus it's easy to miscommunicate words. I've seen this happen hundreds of times...an innocent guy or gal says something andgets ganged up on.


Threads-can always go offtopic given enough time. That's good and bad. Good for spontaneous action and bad well cause they can go so far off into the Universe. I have no ideas how to break cliques (they tell each other how nice they smell...they validate each other thru goofyness, etc.)


Cliques on every major social website like Yahoo always intimidate new comers. Over the years I've seen thousands of new members post once...get ignored (thethreadgetshijacked by a clique) and never post again.Again Ithink this is just natural.


But it becomes unhealthy when the major cliques become hostileto the Mother website/group. Then attitudes seep into other places...I've seensmaller Yahoo websites poisoned this way. For example there's a website for people that don't like EH. It's pure pessimistic. I tried to lighten up the folks, tell jokes,tell the women how beautiful they are, etc. To no avail, they wanted their misery.


Years later I checked up on the same group-same ole same ole. This applies to gender warefare too. Ok I'm not innocent here...what I mean is the paragraph above. Unhappy customers poison a group...optimistic people try to flirt with them and get shot down...one after another.


It then degenerates into a gender fight...I've seen yelling matches on Yahoo that defied sanity. Many times the original moderator disappeared and these websites were just floating along. They'd get infiltrated by a clique of haters. And worse...I'veresearched lots of internet dating sites including many free ones.


Bottomline, I suggest if somone was going against the spirit of a website/service, then rules might be enacted to protect theMother website. I've had to ban people who weredragging down a wholewebsite...


My greatest weaknessis my bitter divorce from eons ago. Andwhat happened after I divorced her. To this day sometimes my mind switches when I perceive misandry posts...and I have to remember what my brother said. Always give someone the benefit of the doubt. They might of had abad day, etc.


Blank profiles-I see an abundance of blank profiles posting on main threads. I'm always asking myself "are we doing their homework? Is this justa research/writer?


Sensitivity training for men-women come here with legitimate concerns per trying to date men on EH. A lot of us guys take their sometimes heated and strongly worded posts the wrong way. I'm guilty of this. Perhaps a semi-permanent reminder/post for the guys on how to handle this when upset women post?


Sensitivity training for women-the male language is very differentfrom women's language. We don't always have as many online and offline social contacts to vent to. Thus when we get online we might be going full steam (raw and unedited-the male language.) Maybe a post where women are made aware of how less social contacts men have...and how men communicate (men get angry) would help. And that we don't always mean to insult, etc. Same here, perhaps somewhere a semi-permanent reminder to womennot to get upset when men object to their posts.


I've seenat least a 500 innocent posts over the years by men...in which women just trample the guy into the internet dust...maybe theguy was older or maybe theguyhad nobody offline to first clarify his thoughts. Or maybe he was totally politically incorrect. I've spoken to these guys offsite andmany of them (the goodguys not the jerks) had novenom towardswomen.)


Politically Correct-do we have to be PC? I mean are the Politically Correct ever "wrong?" Does this build up frustrations levels per men? And if so, can anything be done about this? Or must men online learn to speak womanese? No puns intended. I might be wrong here.


Trolls-I haven't been here long enough yet but I'm starting to spot patterns...blank or near blank profiles egging on men or women. I've seen women who either are mad at a guy or all men post a loaded question...andstartbashing men left and right who don't agree withthem. Now I've become good friends with someone I thought was a troll. What made me stop thinking that was how fair she was. I'm talking here about people who egg on others tohate a whole gender.


I've had several guys complain to me about the same female poster. Maybe I am being prejudiced here.


As for trolls in general, there will always be those who form profiles weekly or daily...just for kicks, etc. This can range from innocent fun to sexespretending tobe the opposite sex to those who have anger issues (or worse) and cause chaos on purpose.


Excellent conversation, I hope some of what we said helps. Thank you for this opportunity. I am most amazed by most women's patience. Peace.


- February 15th, 2009, 03:14 am
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When_I_See_You_Smile When_I_See_You_Smile is offline
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eH_Advice_Admin_Lori, wrote :

Can't we all just get along?


Why are tempers so short here lately?


Without pointing fingers at other Members, or turning THIS into a fight thread, can we talk about this, please?
Lori,

Thank you for initiating this conversation. I think LBMM covered the issues nicely.

I would just like to add the following. A good deal of the frustration I've seen around the boards, comes from the fact that older members are tired of seeing the same dating questions asked over and over again. So, instead of responding in a positive, encouraging way, to a newbie, the responses are often trite.

I would love to see a new section added to the main boards (positioned between the Dating board and the Relationships board), where the most popular dating topics/threads are archived, with a sticky note. Most of the topics that newcomers are interested in have already been covered thoroughly (for example, all of the nice guy threads). Right now, there are only two ways to find existing topics (through the search feature and combing through pages on a particular board); both options are cumbersome and time-consuming.

A board for archived topics would be a wonderful tool for new members. Of course, this would involve sifting through the existing threads to pull out the best ones. Maybe older members would be willing to help you identify worthwhile threads.

My point is that the learning curve for newcomers is often steep, especially if they are new to online dating. Not only do new folks need their questions answered, but they have to figure out how to assimilate into an existing group of diverse posters.

Unfortunately, sometimes, it's easy to forget what it's like to be a newbie. I think that things would run more smoothly, with a lot less frustration on both sides, if new members had a specific place to go to for answers.

Adding sticky notes to threads on the Using Eharmony board would be a great idea as well. I know that Tantalus put together a thread that answered the most popular questions awhile back. Maybe you could use that.

Overall, I think that the boards are a great resource. Where else can you get such diverse responses to your questions?

I feel welcome here, and am glad I found this community.



Heather





- February 15th, 2009, 01:46 pm
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StatGamer StatGamer is offline
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When_I_See_You_Smile wrote :

eH_Advice_Admin_Lori, wrote :


Can't we all just get along?


Why are tempers so short here lately?


Without pointing fingers at other Members, or turning THIS into a fight thread, can we talk about this, please?

Lori,





Thank you for initiating this conversation. I think LBMM covered the issues nicely.





I would just like to add the following. A good deal of the frustration I've seen around the boards, comes from the fact that older members are tired of seeing the same dating questions asked over and over again. So, instead of responding in a positive, encouraging way, to a newbie, the responses are often trite.





I would love to see a new section added to the main boards (positioned between the Dating board and the Relationships board), where the most popular dating topics/threads are archived, with a sticky note. Most of the topics that newcomers are interested in have already been covered thoroughly (for example, all of the nice guy threads). Right now, there are only two ways to find existing topics (through the search feature and combing through pages on a particular board); both options are cumbersome and time-consuming.





A board for archived topics would be a wonderful tool for new members. Of course, this would involve sifting through the existing threads to pull out the best ones. Maybe older members would be willing to help you identify worthwhile threads.





My point is that the learning curve for newcomers is often steep, especially if they are new to online dating. Not only do new folks need their questions answered, but they have to figure out how to assimilate into an existing group of diverse posters.





Unfortunately, sometimes, it's easy to forget what it's like to be a newbie. I think that things would run more smoothly, with a lot less frustration on both sides, if new members had a specific place to go to for answers.





Adding sticky notes to threads on the Using Eharmony board would be a great idea as well. I know that Tantalus put together a thread that answered the most popular questions awhile back. Maybe you could use that.





Overall, I think that the boards are a great resource. Where else can you get such diverse responses to your questions?





I feel welcome here, and am glad I found this community.





Heather
Heather, you have a GREAT idea! The sticky-ing of the oft-trodden threads would be a fantastic solution.


I for one would gladly help sift through old threads and find answers that are caring, compassionate, reasonable and given with good intent, not to inflame.


Speaking of which, how do I find Tantalus' thread?
- February 15th, 2009, 02:02 pm
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neardc neardc is offline
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StatGamer wrote :


Speaking of which, how do I find Tantalus' thread?


Here you go: http://advice.eharmony.com/?page=view_thread&TID=18740
- February 15th, 2009, 02:19 pm
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There are a few issues that cause in-fighting I have seen.


1. Generalizations. Men are like this, women are like that, and you're all the same. It also happens with Christians/atheists and conservatives/liberals and young/old posters. It doesn't help anyone understand any individual, just perpetuates the stereotypes, which is utterly useless.


2. Posting a topic as a statement, not a question. I've seen an OP ask a question, then become angry and personally attack those that do not agree with him or her. Then don't ask. Write a blog somewhere. Which brings me to...


3. Don't get personal. Challenge the idea, not the person. I've been told all kinds of nasty things (my favorite was thatI wasa lesser personbecause I was a "breeder"), but I try my best to act like this person I'm responding to will be sitting across the desk from me at my next job interview.


4. Don't assume it's personal. When someone challenges your ideas, they're not (necessarily) saying you're an idiot, they just disagree. Take it as the writing of someone passionate about their opinions, not an invitation to a bar fight.


5. Lurk a bit before posting. There was a big uproar over someone being called a "troll" because the person did not know the local ramifications of that term. Here, it is used to identify posters who frequently switch identities and post inflammatory messages for the sole purpose of causing arguments. If someone is accused of that, it's usuallya reflection of the flavor of theposts, not a judgement of the poster.


6. Read through your post before you hit Submit. Is that really what you were intending to say? Can you say the same thing without appearing so angry?


That's it for me. I just try to get along with everyone, and do my best to not cause them any pain. It's kind of back to thinking my dad is looking over my shoulder, and hoping he would he be proud of what I write.


- February 15th, 2009, 02:40 pm
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