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meri75 meri75 is offline
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ming_on_mongo wrote :
**snipped to the fundamentalist bit**
And the fear-based "Hellfire & Brimstone" Fundamentalists, who insist "worship Me or burn in hell for eternity"... well, they're definitely not the "loving" types!!

And "my way or the highway" rigidity is also a primary symptom of clinical narcissism...
I am a Fundamentalist Christian. Here is what it means, taken from the book What People Ask About The Church by Dale A Robbins.

In recent times, the term "fundamentalist" has become commonly used by the news media to refer to any religious group whom they consider to hold radical views. We may recall frequent references to the mid-east Islamic fundamentalists who have been viewed as fanatics, and often responsible for acts of terrorism.

Similarly, liberal society uses the term fundamentalist to identify any Christian whom they consider to be an extremist. Generally, they classify a Christian as a radical fundamentalist if they merely believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible, if they hold views against sexual permissiveness, homosexuality, abortion on demand, or any views which are politically incorrect.

From the Christian perspective, fundamentalist has traditionally referred to any follower of Christ who believes that the Bible is the inspired Word of God and who believes in its literal interpretation and fundamental teachings. The fundamental Christian believes in the experience of the "new birth" which occurs when faith is placed in Christ as Savior and Lord. To the world this may be viewed as radical, but is very basic to the Christian faith.

The idea of Christian Fundamentalism first emerged as a movement in the 19th century within various Protestant bodies, who reacted against the rising tide of evolutionary theories and modernist Biblical criticism. From a Bible conference of Conservative Protestants meeting in Niagara in 1895, a statement was issued containing what came to be known as the five points of fundamentalism: The verbal inerrancy of Scripture, the divinity of Jesus Christ, the virgin birth, a substitutionary theory of the atonement, and the physical resurrection and bodily return of Christ.¹ In the first half of the 20th century, most Protestant churches in the U.S. were divided into either Fundamentalist or Modernist groups. The term has generally been applied to all those who adhere to strict, conservative (Protestant) orthodoxy in the matter of Biblical inspiration.

In the broad sense, fundamentalism may be used to describe Christians who are uncompromising, conservative and who take their beliefs to the maximum — exactly how every believer should live. But because of recent, increased activism by those identified as fundamentalists, who have promoted unethical actions such as bringing violence against abortion clinics, doctors etc., some academic circles believe that fundamentalism has been redefined by our society. They believe that the philosophy of fundamentalism (at least in the world's eyes) has evolved into a legitimate form of extremism, with views too radical for the balanced, evangelical Christian. For this reason, fundamentalism may no longer be a term which accurately conveys what orthodox Christians really believe.

¹ The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church

When you write 'fundamentalist' do you mean the bolded section above? Or has it a different meaning for you, more aligned to Extremist activities and/or behaviour? Or something else altogether?
- October 31st, 2009, 08:48 pm
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ming_on_mongo ming_on_mongo is offline
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Meri.... I am aware that there are many different movements even within the evangelical & pentecostal communities. But I'm generally still referring to the unique values that they all share (as you've indicated), and which generally sets them apart from the more "traditional" Protestant (Episcopal, Lutheran, Methodist, etc.) and Roman Catholic spheres:
"In the broad sense, fundamentalism may be used to describe Christians who are uncompromising, conservative and who take their beliefs to the maximum — exactly how every believer should live."

But let me know if you feel there's a more appropriate term. BTW, I'm certainly not suggesting that every "fundamentalist" Christian is a Narcissist. Only that narcissists may be finding a more "useful" and "hospitable" home among Fundamentalist values, than they might among more liberal or mainstream churches. And as you point out, there's already the problem of 'Fundamentalism" being confused with the more violent extremists, who are motivated by their own interpretation of "taking their beliefs to the maximum".
- October 31st, 2009, 10:47 pm
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meri75 meri75 is offline
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ming_on_mongo wrote :
Meri.... I am aware that there are many different movements even within the evangelical & pentecostal communities. But I'm generally still referring to the unique values that they all share (as you've indicated), and which generally sets them apart from the more "traditional" Protestant (Episcopal, Lutheran, Methodist, etc.) and Roman Catholic spheres:
"In the broad sense, fundamentalism may be used to describe Christians who are uncompromising, conservative and who take their beliefs to the maximum — exactly how every believer should live."

But let me know if you feel there's a more appropriate term. BTW, I'm certainly not suggesting that every "fundamentalist" Christian is a Narcissist. Only that narcissists may be finding a more "useful" and "hospitable" home among Fundamentalist values, than they might among more liberal or mainstream churches. And as you point out, there's already the problem of 'Fundamentalism" being confused with the more violent extremists, who are motivated by their own interpretation of "taking their beliefs to the maximum".
Yep - I got that you were not saying that.

I tend to think that narcissists would be very uncomfortable in devout Christian or religious circles ... they would not be able to receive the attention craved and would more than likely have a mature Christian pick them up on visible narcissistic behaviour which would be at odds with the New Commandment and also the Beattitudes (Matthew) and the Fruits of the Spirit (Galatians). I do think it possible a narcissist could set him/herself up in a top-notch role though (such as TV Evangelism) and carry it off well for some time undetected ... because the people around are unlikely to be focused with spiritual lenses. If that makes sense?

What I am finding difficulty with - some words have very different meanings for me and it completely construes the tone of the post if I don't bother to seek clarification. I've noticed on the flip side, at times members have been really offended by something I posted in total innocence. Words eh?!
- October 31st, 2009, 11:01 pm
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You're right, televangelism would seem to be tailor-made for the narcissist.... with all the attention, adulation, "entitlement", plus complete control over your "image"! And how much more "special" does it get than saying that you speak for God!?

But I hear 'ya re: "meanings", and sometimes it's a wonder we all do as well as we do, between slang, style, and cross-cultural differences, plus the limits of email! Heck, I'm still waiting for "smilies" to indicate stuff like "irony", "gratitude" and "no way, you gotta be kidding"...!!
- October 31st, 2009, 11:48 pm
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meri75 meri75 is offline
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I want a 'deadset' smilie ... complete with all the different inflections I manage to give to the word in speech!
- November 1st, 2009, 12:35 am
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fair dinkum.....
- November 1st, 2009, 04:54 am
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meri75 wrote :
What I am finding difficulty with - some words have very different meanings for me and it completely construes the tone of the post if I don't bother to seek clarification. I've noticed on the flip side, at times members have been really offended by something I posted in total innocence. Words eh?!
(Well if you operate by your own dictionary then how can folks fairly understand you?)

As for being offended, I'm completely with you...people (and far more women than men I observe) get personally offended when the comment has absolutely nothing to do with them but only with the idea presented.

A variant of this is people who think "offended" when they really mean 'strongly disagree'. It's crazy but not uncommon.
- November 1st, 2009, 07:42 am
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I think "fundamentalist" in America has come to mean someone who is rigidly wedded to extreme beliefs, chief among which is the belief that people who don't share the fundamentalist's beliefs are Wrong and/or Bad. It sounds like for you it has a more technical meaning, just describing a certain type of Christianity. Is that general Aussie or is it just you?
- November 1st, 2009, 08:19 am
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ming_on_mongo wrote :
fair dinkum.....
Ridgy-didge Mate!
- November 1st, 2009, 01:49 pm
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meri75 meri75 is offline
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WeDesignOurLives wrote :
(Well if you operate by your own dictionary then how can folks fairly understand you?)

As for being offended, I'm completely with you...people (and far more women than men I observe) get personally offended when the comment has absolutely nothing to do with them but only with the idea presented.

A variant of this is people who think "offended" when they really mean 'strongly disagree'. It's crazy but not uncommon.
I'm Australian - here's another example. 'The Church' in Oz refers to the Catholic faith, not to Christianity. So when in the news they are reporting on something at the Church of England or Anglican churches, that is actually specified. The rest of the time, we infer the reporter means Catholicism due to our cultural understanding of this term. I find it very confusing following some religious/faith based conversations on EHA, because it appears as if people are using 'the church' for both.

Um, yes - I do agree with you. I am surprised by some comments on the main boards at times.

I think myself that people (both sexes! ) sometimes react strongly because he/she has actually been in that situation and found it offensive. Then it is all too easy to zip back to feelings at the time, and project.
- November 1st, 2009, 01:58 pm
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