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Can_I_just_be_Jo Can_I_just_be_Jo is offline
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ming_on_mongo wrote :
For some reason it got lost in "mod land", but there's some research that shows the first 6-8 months is the critical time to form the right "bonding" for proper brain development, before the neurological pathways become "hardwired".
I stayed home with my kids but still a lot of my friends worked. The difference was from the very beginning they didn't believe that it was someone's responsibility to raise their children. They interacted, played, disciplined their children when they were home. I find it interesting that the same parents that leave everything up to everyone else are the first to take credit for their successes. Whatever.

I get scolded by other parents for being too hard on my kids. I am a lot easier on my kids than my parents were on me.
- November 13th, 2009, 10:19 am
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TracyBluebird TracyBluebird is offline
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Sassafras54 wrote :
So children are learning life skills from other people rather than their parents, and this removes an important bonding opportunity, so kids aren't forming adequate emotional bonds, leading to narcissism? That makes sense.

But most people don't become highly narcissistic, even when raised in these conditions. Why would that be?
I know at times, even when a child has a poor parent model, they may have other good models in their life who "take up the slack" so to speak. Just because an appropriate bonding is missing, doesn't mean the child is a lost cause. It may be personality based also.

Ming on mongo may, our resident expert, may know if there is any genetic reason.
- November 13th, 2009, 11:14 am
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TracyBluebird TracyBluebird is offline
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Can_I_just_be_Jo wrote :
I stayed home with my kids but still a lot of my friends worked. The difference was from the very beginning they didn't believe that it was someone's responsibility to raise their children. They interacted, played, disciplined their children when they were home. I find it interesting that the same parents that leave everything up to everyone else are the first to take credit for their successes. Whatever
Ah, I know that feeling, but my ex would take credit for all the good qualities of our children, though he was never around, but blame me for anything they did wrong

Can_I_just_be_Jo wrote :
I get scolded by other parents for being too hard on my kids. I am a lot easier on my kids than my parents were on me.
I am not hard on my kids, but I have high expectations of my kids, like my parents did. I have told them recently I want them to put as much effort into their success as I do. At sporting events, I expect my son to be respectful of the coach and not monkey around in the dugout. I will tell the boys in the dugout to "cheer on your buddy, be respectful," and most times coaches will thank me, but parents act like I am being control freak Mom!

One thing I see in the classrrom, which is likely an indication of a narcissist, is the incredible disrespect of students. There is actually more of this in the "good" schools than the rough schools. The disrespect in the rough schools is a defense mechanism for all the critcism or lack of input the kids get from parents. The disrespect in the "good" schools is from a sense of entitlement.
Last edited by TracyBluebird; November 13th, 2009 at 11:34 am. Reason: fix quote
- November 13th, 2009, 11:32 am
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WeDesignOurLives WeDesignOurLives is offline
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TracyBluebird wrote :
The disrespect in the rough schools is a defense mechanism for all the critcism or lack of input the kids get from parents. The disrespect in the "good" schools is from a sense of entitlement.
Are you saying the kids in the rough schools are acting out in anger?

The kids in good schools feel entitled? Why? I thought it was because they're simply spoiled and don't respect authority.
- November 15th, 2009, 05:42 pm
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Sassafras54 Sassafras54 is offline
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If anyone's interested, there's a good post in the Let's Talk About Sex group, describing a sexual relationship with what sounds to me like a narcissist, in http://advice.eharmony.com/boards/gr...history-3.html (is it ever ok to ask someone about their sexual history?)

post #23.

WARNING: it's sexually graphic. Don't go there if that will bother you.
- November 17th, 2009, 01:40 pm
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ming_on_mongo ming_on_mongo is offline
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Sassafras54 wrote :
If anyone's interested, there's a good post in the Let's Talk About Sex group, describing a sexual relationship with what sounds to me like a narcissist, in http://advice.eharmony.com/boards/gr...history-3.html (is it ever ok to ask someone about their sexual history?)

post #23.

WARNING: it's sexually graphic. Don't go there if that will bother you.
Why Sass, you naughty girl you... (cool)!

Yup, the long-distance "push me-pull you", and the obvious manipulation by controlling whatever they know you "want" (and then telling him about it when she arrives at the airport.... hey, that's "ballsy", and a "2-fer"!). Yup, sounds like a classic Narcissist.... good call!

Of course these days, my take on these kinda things is that "it takes two to tango". Meaning as "over the top" as the Narcissist may be, why's the partner still putting up with it...?
- November 17th, 2009, 02:47 pm
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Sassafras54 Sassafras54 is offline
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Yeah, well I think he was 23 at the time, and did give up eventually. I think when you're all involved in this kind of thing, it's hard to stand back and objectively see that someone is disordered. Especially with a disordered partner, everything is very complex, and they trigger disorderly parts of you, and it gets hard to separate out what's going on. Am I preaching to the choir here?

I had one bf who probably had borderline personality disorder. While we were still in it, I just found him very difficult, and felt like I was doing a lot of things wrong, and had a lot of confusion. After we broke up, I realized the BPD was probable. Kind of shocked me, that I didn't see it.
- November 17th, 2009, 03:13 pm
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ming_on_mongo ming_on_mongo is offline
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Sassafras54 wrote :
Yeah, well I think he was 23 at the time, and did give up eventually. I think when you're all involved in this kind of thing, it's hard to stand back and objectively see that someone is disordered. Especially with a disordered partner, everything is very complex, and they trigger disorderly parts of you, and it gets hard to separate out what's going on. Am I preaching to the choir here?

I had one bf who probably had borderline personality disorder. While we were still in it, I just found him very difficult, and felt like I was doing a lot of things wrong, and had a lot of confusion. After we broke up, I realized the BPD was probable. Kind of shocked me, that I didn't see it.
That's OK, "preach on".... it's always good to "sing along" with someone else who also knows the "tune"!

And you're right, age aside, "reality" and our perceptions constantly get mucked with in a relationship like that, not to mention the trust issues that no one expects (or wants to believe). So as they say, "you gotta be there" to appreciate it! Wow, and BPD's with all their "drama" are really a handful besides!

Still, I do think that, for one reason or another, some of us are more "susceptible" to Narcissists and Borderlines than others.
Last edited by ming_on_mongo; November 17th, 2009 at 03:35 pm.
- November 17th, 2009, 03:29 pm
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Sassafras54 Sassafras54 is offline
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ming_on_mongo wrote :
some of us are more "vulnerable" than others.
Probably! NPD and BPD people can have some very attractive qualities: intelligence, creativity, drama!

And they can be excruciatingly good at triggering my own N and B tendencies. I do not have NPD or BPD, but I have elements of those in me. I think pretty much everyone does, at least a little bit. Perhaps I have more than just a little bit. Hah!

And many people are Fixers ... get hooked by those who need to be fixed. I'm not that really, but I think it's very common.

One Good Argument for learning about these disorders and learning to recognize them, and examining them in oneself, and always remembering to bring the head along when your heart is taking a little trip! Not so easy to do always ...
- November 17th, 2009, 03:37 pm
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ming_on_mongo ming_on_mongo is offline
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Sassafras54 wrote :
Probably! NPD and BPD people can have some very attractive qualities: intelligence, creativity, drama!

And they can be excruciatingly good at triggering my own N and B tendencies. I do not have NPD or BPD, but I have elements of those in me. I think pretty much everyone does, at least a little bit. Perhaps I have more than just a little bit. Hah!

And many people are Fixers ... get hooked by those who need to be fixed. I'm not that really, but I think it's very common.

One Good Argument for learning about these disorders and learning to recognize them, and examining them in oneself, and always remembering to bring the head along when your heart is taking a little trip! Not so easy to do always ...
You bet, being of the resourceful "fixer" type myself (hey, always feels good to be needed!), having been raised (aka "trained") by narcissists, plus being a sucker for "charm" (you're right, what's not to like?).... I can definitely relate to alot of my own susceptibilities to manipulation.

I like your advice to always bring both heart AND head along. And I think it's also a good idea to be aware of what "we" want and need in the relationship (as well as what "they" want), especially when constant "drama" can overshadow that, or maybe we're simply less conscious of such things, than others who are less "vulnerable".

Although these days I've finally decided to go "cold turkey"...
- November 17th, 2009, 08:34 pm
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