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jsbach jsbach is offline
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jsbach Out looking for serendipity

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Heather, you're a cutie pie.
It was right to have a good ol' family discussion.
This is important to you and that's good enough for me.
Everyone is free to have their opinion and to express said opinion. A basic belief.
They say hindsight is 20/20. I don't think anyone acted poorly in this thread. It's been a good example of a healthy discussion. At least that's how I see it. I could be........wrong, again...... oh well.
- August 8th, 2009, 09:37 pm
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littlebluemonkeymind littlebluemonkeymind is offline
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When_I_See_You_Smile wrote :
My comment was directed to the entire group, not one person. If I had an issue with one person, I would have certainly used a PM. I was only trying to explain how I felt about something, that involved a consistent topic, as of late. If I had not said anything, no one would know how I felt about it, and many people would continue to post comments, in multiple threads.

As LBMM said, yes, that's my problem. Somehow, though, I was under the impression, that WE, as a community, look out for each other, and try hard to be loving and respectful. Why wouldn't we want to know, if our comments were hurting someone? Wouldn't you want an opportunity to fix it, or stop doing whatever it is, that's causing discomfort?
This will be my last post in this thread. If you want to continue the discussion, I'm happy to do so with you in PM.

We are a community. We do look out for each other. If someone is attacking you or belittling you, I would be the first to jump to your defense. But I'm curious as to how this particular offense acutally hurts you. And I ask because, yes, we want to be respectful of one another and we all want to feel that this is a safe place to play, but I think we also all have a responsibility to not impose our mores on others. It's what keeps CSC open and safe for everyone...that we can express ourselves (with the exception of actual harm) without feeling the need to second-guess every post.

Discomfort is not harm. In fact, some of my greatest personal growth has come in seasons of extreme discomfort. My responsibility to this community is to not do harm. I would not hurt you for all the world, nor would I stand by and allow anyone else to do so for their amusement. So, if my uninhibited play is indeed truly harming you, I would prefer simply to walk away from the forum all together. However, as a community member, I see you as also having a responsibility to not use our affection for you as a manipulation to change behavior that simply makes you uncomfortable or offends you.

That is all I'm going to say on the subject publicly.
- August 8th, 2009, 09:44 pm
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When_I_See_You_Smile When_I_See_You_Smile is offline
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When_I_See_You_Smile Something caught WISYS's attention... and refused to give it back to her.

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littlebluemonkeymind wrote :
And I have no problem with you expressing your opinion as you did in the bolded part of first sentence above, although if you expect to do so and have it go unchallenged, that might be an unreasonable expectation.

I never expected it to go unchallenged. I just think it's an important conversation to have.

However, you went beyond expressing your opinion to asking the entire community to accomodate your discomfort with something by engaging in consensual censorship. And my response to you is, in a word, no.

We all have the freedom to speak, as we wish. My bringing up a sensitive subject, and asking for awareness regarding it, deserves the same amount of respect, as you saying "no." Did I think that everyone was going to say "Sure, no problem," as if they were my students? Of course not. That wasn't the point.

I will not stop making those comments or chapstick comments or any other comments that are not an attack against anyone. As I said, there are many things said here that I find in poor taste or that make me uncomfortable but that is my issue and not the community's. And my response to those is either to answer them directly or ignore them, not request an accomodation based on my personal mores, morals, circumstances, or opinions.
Again, I still think this falls under being sensitive to each other. One last time, I am sorry for causing a disruption.
- August 8th, 2009, 09:53 pm
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When_I_See_You_Smile When_I_See_You_Smile is offline
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When_I_See_You_Smile Something caught WISYS's attention... and refused to give it back to her.

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jsbach wrote :
Heather, you're a cutie pie.
It was right to have a good ol' family discussion.
This is important to you and that's good enough for me.
Everyone is free to have their opinion and to express said opinion. A basic belief.
They say hindsight is 20/20. I don't think anyone acted poorly in this thread. It's been a good example of a healthy discussion. At least that's how I see it. I could be........wrong, again...... oh well.
Thank you.
- August 8th, 2009, 09:57 pm
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CatCareMan CatCareMan is offline
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Wild. I have obviously been doing too little (or perhaps sufficiently little?) browsing through the various threads. All I've been seeing is non sequitur posts that were nothing but "BUTTCRACK!" and "LESBIAN!!!" I was taking those to be simple weird little Tourette's-like outbursts. Surely these are not the posts that are causing disHETEROSEXUAL!comfort?
- August 8th, 2009, 10:22 pm
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VIOGNIER!!
- August 8th, 2009, 10:24 pm
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When_I_See_You_Smile When_I_See_You_Smile is offline
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When_I_See_You_Smile Something caught WISYS's attention... and refused to give it back to her.

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littlebluemonkeymind wrote :
This will be my last post in this thread. If you want to continue the discussion, I'm happy to do so with you in PM.

We are a community. We do look out for each other. If someone is attacking you or belittling you, I would be the first to jump to your defense. But I'm curious as to how this particular offense acutally hurts you.

I have seen, first-hand, how even a seemingly innocent comment (like using the phrase, "That's so gay."), can hurt someone. I have had to jump to the defense of gay students, time and again. And the comments are always "in fun." I have to deal with students bullying each other, regarding the subject, all year long.

And on a more personal level, I know exactly what my brother went through, when he came out, at the age of 16. I had a front-row seat, when half of my family (including my parents), refused to accept him, because we were raised Catholic (the church believes that it's a sin). He has endured more ridicule and pain (esp. in public), than anyone I know.

Even though the comments here, have been made "in fun," I know how they make people feel, and I simply can't ignore them.

And I ask because, yes, we want to be respectful of one another and we all want to feel that this is a safe place to play, but I think we also all have a responsibility to not impose our mores on others. It's what keeps CSC open and safe for everyone...that we can express ourselves (with the exception of actual harm) without feeling the need to second-guess every post.

I agree... until it gets to a point where it crosses a line for someone. Then, a healthy conversation, is a good approach. As difficult as it has been this evening, to endure all of this criticism, I don't regret saying something about a topic that is obviously important to me.

Discomfort is not harm.

No, it's not. But that doesn't mean that I, or anyone else, should have to keep quiet about something.

In fact, some of my greatest personal growth has come in seasons of extreme discomfort. My responsibility to this community is to not do harm. I would not hurt you for all the world, nor would I stand by and allow anyone else to do so for their amusement.

You know that I would not let that happen to you, either. And yes, we all have a responsibility to the community, which is why I believe it's important to talk about things like this.

So, if my uninhibited play is indeed truly harming you, I would prefer simply to walk away from the forum all together. However, as a community member, I see you as also having a responsibility to not use our affection for you as a manipulation to change behavior that simply makes you uncomfortable or offends you.

That is all I'm going to say on the subject publicly.
I am NOT trying to manipulate anyone.
- August 8th, 2009, 10:38 pm
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m8se69 m8se69 is offline
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Lostintranslation wrote :
my new band's name is BUTTCRACK and we wear tinfoil hats when we play... I'm the lead singer because I hear they get all the jam.
I can play bass! Or keyboards. Can I join the BUTTCRACKS? Pretty Please???
- August 8th, 2009, 11:37 pm
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clearlyoblique clearlyoblique is offline
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clearlyoblique wears the skirt in the relationship

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Well, I must say ...

This has been a very unsatisfying general thread about how everyone is comfortable about being around and talking about gay people and how no one meant any harm to people who are gay or, maybe know gay people, even thought some people were offended by comments that were not identified because they understand gay people.

And I read it all. For that, I will fark myself.
Last edited by clearlyoblique; August 9th, 2009 at 12:11 am. Reason: It deserved a run on sentence.
- August 9th, 2009, 12:11 am
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HarryG HarryG is offline
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Nah. We're just folk. Different opinions, different buttons. I like and respect every single poster on this thread., I don't particularly like these squabbles, but I do see why they need to happen at times.

In the end, as long as everyone here reminds themselves that a difference in viewpoint does *NOT* make one an a$$hat, then we all say goodnight at the end of the day and go to bed as one.

Uhm..well...maybe not *as one*. But you get my drift.
- August 9th, 2009, 06:40 am
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