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ming_on_mongo ming_on_mongo is offline
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ming_on_mongo -Seattle transplant to NorCal... hmmm, sun good!

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notyet wrote :
during ramadan, i wished my muslim friends "ramadan mubarak." at christmas, i say "merry christmas." at christmas, i want you to have a merry chirtmas. that does not mean you have to celebrate it. but the day is christmas and i hope you have a nice one.

<):-D
OK, if "Christians" want to try to stake a "proprietary claim" on the holiday, then they need to stand in line behind the Romans ("Saturnalia"), who swiped it from the Babylonians (the Feast of Isis on Dec. 25th), plus all the contributions of the pre-christian Druids (the tree, laurel, etc.), the Germans (Father Christmas), the Visigoths (the Yule feast to Mithras), and all the other Winter Solstice festivals, among others.

In fact it was once so associated with the pagans, that the early Puritans banned its celebration, and early christian writers and theologians claimed that "only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod)" celebrated their birthdays."!

BTW, that the holiday is now called "Christmas" makes it no more exclusively "christian", than my roll of 'Scotch Tape' is still exclusively made by 3M (hey there you go, maybe they should patent the name!).

So if Atheists, or even Seinfeld fans ("Festivus!") also want to compete for a claim to the holiday, then why not?

Although personally, I'm not so sure about "Kwanzaa" yet...!
- November 7th, 2009, 11:10 am
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chawks64 chawks64 is offline
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Merry Christmas is (obviously) not offensive to me, but neither is Happy Holidays. Be comfortable with whomever you are.

I think what bothers a lot of Christians is that many businesses and governmental offices do not allow them to say Merry Christmas, though they are allowed to mention any other holiday by name. So it's okay to say Happy Halloween, and I have yet to see anyone dare to complain about Happy Chanukah, but Merry Christmas is many times forbidden.
- November 7th, 2009, 12:28 pm
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Hisown Hisown is offline
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This is an interesting thread. I think that it is a shame that one group should spend money to technically dis on Christians and their meaning of the Christmas holiday. I think it is sad that our country has resorted to such a low that we are so godless and mean that we have to post this kind of thing. I feel it is extremely disrespectful and thoughtless. Our children and young people are impacted by the emotion behind this--they may not truly understand it, but on a subconscious subliminal level they hear the hate and intolerance towards those who have a belief in God. Kids hear cultural messages even when they are not verbal.
- November 7th, 2009, 01:08 pm
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jsbach jsbach is offline
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notyet wrote :
you have the essentials correct.

my problem with this ad is that is blatantly targets children. here it is the holiday season and we have a nice cheery picture of santa, who many of the children believe in, and he is telling them, "there is no god."

nice. very nice...
This is true, it does target children. Which I rather resent.

Fortunately I don't believe it will have much of an influence on children. Children naturally know there is a God. A sign telling them the opposite will have little impact. Ever try telling a little one that there is no such things as "monsters"? They are even more convinced about God's existence.

Most children adamantly believe that they were made by God.

One time I was teaching a group of 5-9 year olds in an after school program. During story time I would either read them a Bible story, a real missionary adventure, or a fictional story about kids like them. It would always have a moral lesson.

When I explained my beliefs to the children I would mention that not everyone believed the way I did.

Once we were discussing Creation. I casually mentioned that not everyone believed that God created the world. I explained a bit about evolution. When I said that some people believed humans descended from monkeys the class broke out in hysterical laughter. They thought I was making a very funny joke. It took me about 20 minutes to calm them down from the wild laughter. I tried to explain that it wasn't a joke. Some people didn't believe God made us.

When the children realized that I wasn't putting them on, they were incredulous. These children (from ages 5 through 9 ) thought the premise that people came from monkeys was stupid.

I am sure learning a lot about Seattle from this thread. Wow.
- November 7th, 2009, 02:19 pm
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meri75 meri75 is offline
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jsbach wrote :
**snipped**
Once we were discussing Creation. I casually mentioned that not everyone believed that God created the world. I explained a bit about evolution. When I said that some people believed humans descended from monkeys the class broke out in hysterical laughter. They thought I was making a very funny joke. It took me about 20 minutes to calm them down from the wild laughter. I tried to explain that it wasn't a joke. Some people didn't believe God made us.

When the children realized that I wasn't putting them on, they were incredulous. These children (from ages 5 through 9 ) thought the premise that people came from monkeys was stupid.
I am so glad you shared this, as I have had a similar experience. The kids looked at me like I was nutso personified when I explained that some grown-ups believe we weren't made by God, but came from monkeys.

And I can totally picture the wildly, hysterical laughter of the children too!
- November 7th, 2009, 06:45 pm
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chawks64 wrote :
Oh no, I didn't think you were saying that they should be banned at all. I do know there is generally some kind of movement to boycott/ban messages like this from some of the more vocal groups. Happens every time.

Personally, I think they're helping out Christians more than they know, since it's definitely a conversation starter.
Kind of sad - that this has to come down as a conversation starter....
- November 7th, 2009, 10:41 pm
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notyet notyet is offline
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followmesky wrote :
Kind of sad - that this has to come down as a conversation starter....
in what way? please elaborate-
- November 7th, 2009, 10:50 pm
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Tanya1 Tanya1 is offline
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This is so sad, breaks my heart
- November 10th, 2009, 10:12 am
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ming_on_mongo ming_on_mongo is offline
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You've got a tough job here NotYet, 'cuz I get the idea that whenever folks make statements like this, they can't really explain themselves much, except just "repeat" or "insist".

So just speaking as a curious "heathen observer", I get the sense that everything is basically more of a "feeling" with religious folks. And maybe that's what the whole debate about religion really comes down to these days, the primacy of "feeling" over "reason".

Oh man, that reminds me of arguing with my "ex"!
- November 10th, 2009, 11:30 am
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meri75 meri75 is offline
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ming_on_mongo wrote :
You've got a tough job here NotYet, 'cuz I get the idea that whenever folks make statements like this, they can't really explain themselves much, except just "repeat" or "insist".

So just speaking as a curious "heathen observer", I get the sense that everything is basically more of a "feeling" with religious folks. And maybe that's what the whole debate about religion really comes down to these days, the primacy of "feeling" over "reason".

Oh man, that reminds me of arguing with my "ex"!
Yes and no. My faith is a mixture of both belief and reason. If I can try to explain it a little bit like this re Creation versus other theories for life (seeing as I have written quite a bit on this topic in the IC Group too).

Make no mistake: I choose to believe that the Biblical account of Creation is the true account. I choose to discount the Big Bang Theory and Evolution as plausible theories as to how the earth, solar system, all life form we know, etc, came to be.

My choice is based on my own brand of reasoning and it is quite likely that other Christians will not agree at all, or in part with how I reached my choice.

Charles Darwin was a brilliant man. No doubt about that at all in my mind. But when I was studying him when I was a young girl at school, what struck me almost immediately, was that his theories are based on an assumption: that life forms itself. This means there is likelihood that Darwin interpreted the facts, the evidence he found, according to his assumptions. And I think this is borne out in the flaws modern day experts have discovered in his work.

PS I don't think you are a heathen ... now if you stuck tomato sauce over your bacon and eggs brekky, I may have to re-think that notion! lol
- November 10th, 2009, 02:17 pm
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