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notyet notyet is offline
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could you defend your faith without resorting to the new testament? could you, like those new testament saints we read about, find comfort and support for your beliefs using only what those new testament saints had-the first 39 books of the bible?
- October 30th, 2009, 03:46 pm
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coeuri coeuri is offline
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Notyet, there is so much in that first 3/4s of the Bible..... You bet I could defend my beliefs there as many of those verses and books have been lifelines for me in places in my life. The New Testament writers validate the Old Testament in referring back ..... They let us know that the roots and essence of what has become our beleif system are found in the earlier writings. O, the memories and the images of faith I have found there!
- October 30th, 2009, 07:58 pm
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meri75 meri75 is offline
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notyet wrote :
could you defend your faith without resorting to the new testament? could you, like those new testament saints we read about, find comfort and support for your beliefs using only what those new testament saints had-the first 39 books of the bible?
I suppose - a pre-requisite would be to be able to cleanly define your faith first?
- October 30th, 2009, 10:08 pm
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notyet notyet is offline
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meri75 wrote :
I suppose - a pre-requisite would be to be able to cleanly define your faith first?
i would hope that as christians, our holy book defines our faith and that we do not decide what we believe independent of it and then try to shoe-horn our doctrine into the book.

but as an example of what i intend- the diety of messiah:

isaiah 9:6&7 "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the LORD Almighty will accomplish this."

interestingly- here messiah is called, "Mighty God" and "Everlasting Father" but is spoken of in differentiation from "the LORD Almighty" which could also be pointing to the plurality of god. of course, "Everlasting Father" points to the eternal nature of god, which leads us to...

micah 5:2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."

if we keep reading- here again we have the plurality of god- pointing to the trinity. micah 5:4 "He will stand and shepherd his flock in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God. And they will live securely, for then his greatness will reach to the ends of the earth."

and so that every matter may be proved by two or three witnesss, one that jesus himself used, ps 110:1 "The LORD says to my Lord: 'Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.'"

jesus interpreted this scripture thusly, "How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him 'Lord'? If then David calls him 'Lord,' how can he be his son?" (mt 22:43&45)

of course, no one dared answer that question.

so- continue, please! pick a doctrine and show us all how to defend it in the OT.
- November 1st, 2009, 11:16 pm
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FaithNGod FaithNGod is online now
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I find it important when I share the truth of Gods word that I find out what foundation those I am speaking with stand on. I want to know what standard or authority they live their life by and make the decisions they make.

I also need to prove to them the evidence of the authority of Gods word and the reliability of its message.
If I am unable to do this then it becomes my word against their word.
So I like to use bible prophesy and the specifics of passages to shew the finger print of a divine author.

If they then choose to reject the message that the bible communicates to them, they at least can make a informed decision. We have to remember that souls are at stake. Our testimony of the truth of Gods word is the most important and valuable thing we could do in our life time.
- November 4th, 2009, 06:18 am
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ANDR3W ANDR3W is offline
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You must consider the possibility that the bible was written by men alone and, and that scripture is little more then ancient fictions of a primitive bronze age mythology. You don't have to believe that the bible is true in order to be a good and moral person. Believing in miracles and magic does not make you a good person.

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Last edited by ANDR3W; November 6th, 2009 at 09:32 am. Reason: grammar
- November 6th, 2009, 09:12 am
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FaithNGod FaithNGod is online now
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Sorry but if I would accept that the bible is written by man alone I would be denying the evidence of the finger print of the divine that is clear through out the bible. But you will have to seek out and explore the evidence for your self and make your own determination. It is sad that you either dont see this for your self or your are unwilling to explore it for your self. Either way it is your loss for not knowing.
- November 6th, 2009, 04:22 pm
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Alright before you ask, Here are some of the evidences. I find it interesting that people dont have any problem believing historical evidence of other great people like our founding fathers. When it comes to Jesus and the life and miracles he performed and the eyewitness account of them its dismissed as something else.

First the bible is a extremly accurate historical record of events and science has proven this. Some of the evidences of the finger print of a devine God that has authored His book using many authors are these.

The most powerful is the evidence of prophetic writings fortelling the birth, life and death of Jesus and specifically His means of death.

The second most powerful evidence is His very life and the many miracles He performed including the resurection of an man the healing of many people and the miltiplying of food.

The third is the confession from Jesus Himself of who he is and His baptism when God the father confirmed Jesus diety.

The Fourth is the eyewitness accounts of more than 5000 people and any court of law would accept that many witness. This is also to include the very ruler of the day Pilot. He himself confessed Jesus as King of the Jews and said that he could find no fault in Him.

Should I go on......

You have the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness. You have top religious rules confessing who Jesus is. You have the apostile Paul who had a experience and conversion for being the greatest persicuter of the church.

Last but not last you have men who were willing to give their life for their belief and faith. I have never met anyone who would die for something they knew was a lie.

You have the eyewitness account of Jesus resurection that He fortold.

Their is more but off the top of my head these should be enough for you to inspect for your self. All of these things bear out the truth that the bible is true and that it is written by a devine hand and that is has the most valuable message anyone could hope to discover. Good luck in your discovery!!!!
- November 6th, 2009, 04:59 pm
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ANDR3W ANDR3W is offline
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FaithNGod wrote :
Alright before you ask, Here are some of the evidences. I find it interesting that people dont have any problem believing historical evidence of other great people like our founding fathers. When it comes to Jesus and the life and miracles he performed and the eyewitness account of them its dismissed as something else.

First the bible is a extremly accurate historical record of events and science has proven this. Some of the evidences of the finger print of a devine God that has authored His book using many authors are these.



Every word of the bible was written by men. In bronze age Palestine a small tribe of primitive inhabitants wrote a collection of mythologies in which they cast themselves as "The chosen people". In the following centuries these myths were distorted, parts were rewritten, then repeatedly shuffled. Finally, this material was badly translated into several languages successively. The resultant text ,Christians feel, is the ultimate source of Truth. The bible is overflowing with errors, inconsistencies, and bold faced lies. Have you not read it yourself? A cursory read of the bible should make it obvious that it was not written by an infallible supernatural being, but simply made up by fallible human beings like you and me. One major red flag is that there is nothing in the bible that could not have been written by the people of that time. The stories in the bible reveal a cluelessness about the universe, and portrays an earth bound perspective that never extends beyond the limited knowledge of ancient man. For example: thinking that the world is flat, that sin is the cause of disease, believing that the sins of a village can be placed on a goat who is then driven off into the wilderness to die (to atone for the sins of the villagers), the belief in blood sacrifices, burnt offerings, miracles and magic etc.


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Last edited by ANDR3W; November 9th, 2009 at 02:32 pm. Reason: added text
- November 9th, 2009, 01:36 pm
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ANDR3W wrote :
The bible is overflowing with ... bold faced lies.
could you please give us one example of a bold faced lie in the Bible?
- November 9th, 2009, 02:37 pm
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