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dwreese182 dwreese182 is offline
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Want to know some of the views of the members here. Do you take stories such as Adam and Eve and Noah's Arc, literally or figuratively? If you take them literally......well, I'll get to that if someone replies to the thread.

I personally take the entire bible figuratively. I believe it was loosely based of actual events (some being extremely exaggerated or created from pure imagination to answer the unknown) and people but I feel the story was meant to teach morals, not to imply that an invisible, omnipotent, all powerful being actually existed. I also believe that one of the major purposes of the bible was to create law and order among people. How the bible was actually created (put together), and some of the books that were left out, lead me to further believe that it was simply a means of control and to push personal values onto those whose did not coincide with the "editors".

That's my two cents, got a little off subject there, but wanted everyone to know my stance here.

Again, Adam and Eve/Noah's Arc.....literal or figurative?

Note: I will ask you to back up your beliefs with something other than scripture. Because a book said so is not good enough for me. Have the intelligence to back your beliefs up with your own words.
- October 21st, 2009, 12:22 pm
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Rand_011 Rand_011 is offline
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I view the Bible literally ... Do I understand exactly how we went from the beginning to now .. Nope, and likely won't while I am here on this world ...

I believe it is based on facts ... It Is, so to speak ... I believe that there is God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit ... I believe God, the trinity, is omnipotent, omineresent, omniscient (?sp) ...

That may or may not stand up to your required level of inteligence with regards to my response ... But, oh well
- October 21st, 2009, 12:51 pm
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dwreese182 dwreese182 is offline
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Rand_011 wrote :
I view the Bible literally ... Do I understand exactly how we went from the beginning to now .. Nope, and likely won't while I am here on this world ...

I believe it is based on facts ... It Is, so to speak ... I believe that there is God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit ... I believe God, the trinity, is omnipotent, omineresent, omniscient (?sp) ...

That may or may not stand up to your required level of inteligence with regards to my response ... But, oh well
Well I might not be a rocket scientist but......you're right, I don't like that answer. I prefer definitive answers....but I was actually fishing for a creationist. Do you happen to believe the world is 6000-10000 years old and that man lived with Dinosaurs?

I'm looking for a debate here Rand, you can't come at me with that carp, I can't debate what you "believe" as that is not facts, that is beliefs. Can you at least act like you are a creationist?

Oh, and you spelled intelligence wrong.
Last edited by dwreese182; October 21st, 2009 at 01:19 pm.
- October 21st, 2009, 01:17 pm
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If the primary purpose of the Bible is control and the exertion of authority, why would it spend so much time talking about the faults and downfalls of rulers and religious leaders?
- October 21st, 2009, 01:28 pm
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dwreese182 dwreese182 is offline
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cardguy wrote :
If the primary purpose of the Bible is control and the exertion of authority, why would it spend so much time talking about the faults and downfalls of rulers and religious leaders?
I'm not wanting to debate that....buuuut since you wanna go there. What would I do if I wanted to obtain power would be to first try to take power away from the people who hold it. Tell stories about how horrible people in power in the present and past have been (and of course once I have you hooked I would tell you stories about how horrible things will get if you ever leave my dictatorship), and then talk about how good I am going to be and how the only way to be "saved" from all this brutality and "evil" and to live happily ever after forever and ever is by joining my business/government....eerrr I mean religion and following my rules.

Look at the militaries FM for PSYOPS and you will see that the army follows religions tactics to the "T" when it comes to overthrowing governments and obtaining power. The military drops pamphlets and special forces, religion drops bibles and priests. And since we are on the subject of military action, how's the history for Christianity look on that side of the table?

(Oh I fully believe that religions should be taxed too, just a little FYI if you are wanting to take this even further off subject. I really didn't want to talk about any of the stuff above in this thread.)

Anyways! Adam and Eve/Noah's Arc......literal? Figurative?

I agreed to stay on subject in the "Wisdom" thread, do me the same favor please. If you want me to voice my opinion on Christianity then by all means start another thread asking what people's personal thoughts are on the subject.
- October 21st, 2009, 02:09 pm
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Ok, I'll just have the same last word then and let the thread takes it's course from there. The notion of the author wanting to obtain power simply doesn't make sense in the context of the Bible and its authorship.

As for the literal-ness of the Bible, I'm not a young earth creationist so it sounds like you're not interested in hearing from me.
- October 21st, 2009, 02:14 pm
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cardguy wrote :
Ok, I'll just have the same last word then and let the thread takes it's course from there. The notion of the author wanting to obtain power simply doesn't make sense in the context of the Bible and its authorship.
The people who edited the bible were very smart, I don't doubt that at all. They understood human psychology and human needs. They achieved their goals 10 fold.

cardguy wrote :
As for the literal-ness of the Bible, I'm not a young earth creationist so it sounds like you're not interested in hearing from me.
I was joking with Rand. Don't take that as hostility. I'm sure he got it. But yes, I do want to hear your opinion on it. I am just curious how the it works if you take it literal, but aren't a young earth creationist. I can fully accept that some people don't take every story literally or as historically correct. Both of my parents are Catholic, they take some parts literally and some parts figuratively. To each their own. I just want to know the thought process behind it.
- October 21st, 2009, 02:41 pm
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dwreese182 wrote :
The people who edited the bible were very smart, I don't doubt that at all. They understood human psychology and human needs. They achieved their goals 10 fold.
It still makes no sense to include ideas that suggest that a person's responsibility is ultimately to God, and to show that religious leaders are flawed. The outcome doesn't support your conclusion, much less the evidence we have of the actual process. Anyway, if you wish to leave this topic alone, then leave it alone

wrote :
I was joking with Rand. Don't take that as hostility. I'm sure he got it. But yes, I do want to hear your opinion on it. I am just curious how the it works if you take it literal, but aren't a young earth creationist. I can fully accept that some people don't take every story literally or as historically correct. Both of my parents are Catholic, they take some parts literally and some parts figuratively. To each their own. I just want to know the thought process behind it.
I think that the creation story is compatible with evolution. I believe that the flood happened, although at an intellectual level I don't understand that. It would not shatter my faith to someday learn that it was a localized event. My faith is not based on simply ignoring anything I don't understand, but rather on examining the Bible as a whole, comparing it to what I know about history and the human condition, and finding that things match up to the point that those I can't figure out I am willing to take on faith on the basis of my understanding of the rest.
- October 21st, 2009, 02:52 pm
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The Bible is quite clearly a mix of styles - you have parts that are obviously meant to be taken as history (Joshua, Judges, Kings and Chronicles, etc) and other parts that are obviously poetry (Song of Solomon, Ecclesiastes.)

Then you have some parts that are open to question - Like the book of Job.

The specific examples you asked about, Adam and Eve and Noah's Ark, are in parts which are written as if they were describing actual historical events.
So personally I tend to judge from the context that it is meant to be literal, until I see a reason to take it some other way.

I will tell you ahead of time, if your objections to taking it literally include the assumption that there is no God or that if there is he is not capable of doing what it says he did, then there is no basis for discussion. The only way to discredit the Biblical account is to show that even if God exists the events could not possibly have happened as described. Otherwise it would be just a trading of assumptions.

Assumptions aside, feel free to ask and I'll tell you my way of thinking (with no guarantees of accuracy or scientific evidence of the existence of my alleged brain.)
Last edited by kevin76; October 22nd, 2009 at 09:16 am. Reason: typo
- October 21st, 2009, 02:59 pm
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The stories of Adam & Eve, Noah, the life of Jesus etc I take literally.

I think that some of the stories that Jesus told were figurative and are meant to be applied literally. For example, the parable where He talks about the seed being sown on all different grounds and only some seed germinates and matures into plants. I think that is a very good figurative description of why we see a vast majority of people calling themselves Christians, but failing to actually live it out. (Referring back to your Christian/Muslim kindness thread in Politics) There is no growth.
- October 21st, 2009, 03:20 pm
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