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chawks64 chawks64 is offline
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chawks64 is trying very hard to be patient. Definitely not my best talent.

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In my experience, disagreements will either solidify your own position or make you question why you hold them in the first place. Either is good. But I do believe mutual respect has to be there or neither side will be really listening to the other, just rattling off their beliefs without actually thinking why they hold them to be true.
- October 24th, 2009, 06:10 am
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dwreese182 dwreese182 is offline
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FaithNGod wrote :
concrete conclusion that has no holes in the FACT that Jesus is God according to the Word of God.
Correction. "'Belief' that Jesus is God". There is no actual evidence that Jesus was born a virgin or that he was resurrected (spelling?). On the flip side, there is also no evidence supporting that it didn't happen. However, there is also no evidence to disprove that there is a Chinese tea cup floating around Saturn.

If you believe the word of god (aka Bible, a book) is fact, then you just merely "believe" that it is a fact, which doesn't make it anymore true. Like I said in another post. There is only one way to prove that any religion is the truth, and again, most aren't willing to do that prematurely.
- October 25th, 2009, 07:20 am
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Cloud_Strife Cloud_Strife is offline
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dwreese182 wrote :
Correction. "'Belief' that Jesus is God". There is no actual evidence that Jesus was born a virgin or that he was resurrected (spelling?). On the flip side, there is also no evidence supporting that it didn't happen. However, there is also no evidence to disprove that there is a Chinese tea cup floating around Saturn.

If you believe the word of god (aka Bible, a book) is fact, then you just merely "believe" that it is a fact, which doesn't make it anymore true. Like I said in another post. There is only one way to prove that any religion is the truth, and again, most aren't willing to do that prematurely.
When beliefs contain the power of eternal life, "facts" as you call them are overrated. All of the "facts" will burn with the rest of the world as God creates a new heaven and a new earth. Then what will be a fact?
- October 25th, 2009, 08:59 am
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notyet notyet is offline
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i have at last heard back from my final pick for CS administrator- denniswisconsin. thanks for accepting!

dennis, you will find all you need to know about spurs at this link. (Spurs?)

<):-D
Last edited by notyet; October 25th, 2009 at 09:25 am.
- October 25th, 2009, 09:23 am
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notyet notyet is offline
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dwreese182 wrote :
Correction. "'Belief' that Jesus is God". There is no actual evidence that Jesus was born a virgin or that he was resurrected (spelling?). On the flip side, there is also no evidence supporting that it didn't happen. However, there is also no evidence to disprove that there is a Chinese tea cup floating around Saturn.

If you believe the word of god (aka Bible, a book) is fact, then you just merely "believe" that it is a fact, which doesn't make it anymore true. Like I said in another post. There is only one way to prove that any religion is the truth, and again, most aren't willing to do that prematurely.
is it possible to hijack my own thread?

?:-/

you are right- much of the bible cannot be proven scientifically. but then again, it is not a scientific text. it is a religious text that records historical events. and history cannot be proven scientifically- or sometimes at all.

to go to the absurd- prove to me that abraham lincoln existed. i'll wait...

his documents? his manuscripts? prove to me that is his hand writing. his tomb you say? let's exhume the body and run dna tests. us government won't let you do that? sorry! and even if you could- all that you would prove is that there is a body buried under a stone that says, "here lies lincoln" or words to that effect.

but we know he lived, right? yes we do. and i also believe he did. but that he lived and did all that is claimed of him cannot be proven scientifically.

to go to my other favorite extreme- socrates. he lived, right? an historical figure of great importance. no one doubts that he gave a speech to the athenian republic condemning them and was then summarily executed. but he never wrote a thing! not one thing. where is his body? his tomb?

the only evidence we have of his life is from the writings of one of his disciples. one! and yet no one doubts that socrates lived. but that disciple, plato, surely we can prove he lived, right? the oldest manuscript of plato's apology that we have dates to about 900 a.d., over 1,300 years after the execution of socrates! the next oldest manuscript is in venice and dates from the 13th century a.d.!!

the difference between the life of christ and the life of socrates? jesus' life is better documented. Rylands Papyrus contains portions of the gospel of john and dates to less than one hundred years after the crucifixion of jesus. socrates life was recorded by one contemporary. jesus' by at least eight contemporaries- at least five of whom were eye witnesses.

but we doubt that jesus lived and did all that was recorded of him while socrates is taught in every school. the reason? jesus claimed to be god. and more- was god. and if he is god- and he is- that demands we take action on his claim.

and few of us want to do that. none of us want to be accountable. we all want to live as we desire. i'll end with a reference. i have posted it numerous times these last few months. we can all of look it up. and we should.

romans 3:10-18
Last edited by notyet; October 25th, 2009 at 12:52 pm.
- October 25th, 2009, 11:04 am
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dwreese182 dwreese182 is offline
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notyet wrote :
is it possible to hijack my own thread?
I believe you just did. lol

notyet wrote :
?:-/

you are right- much of the bible cannot be proven scientifically. but then again, it is not a scientific text. it is a religious text that records historical events. and history cannot be proven scientifically- or sometimes at all.

to go to the absurd- prove to me that abraham lincoln existed. i'll wait...

his documents? his manuscripts? prove to me that is his hand writing. his tomb you say? let's exhume the body and run dna tests. us government won't let you do that? sorry! and even if you could- all that you would prove is that there is a body buried under a stone that says, "here lies lincoln" or words to that effect.

but we know he lived, right? yes we do. and i also believe he did. but that he lived and did all that is claimed of him cannot be proven scientifically.

to go to my other favorite extreme- socrates. he lived, right? an historical figure of great importance. no one doubts that he gave a speech to the athenian republic condemning them and was then summarily executed. but he never wrote a thing! not one thing. where is his body? his tomb?

the only evidence we have of his life is from the writings of one of his disciples. one! and yet no one doubts that socrates lived. but that disciple, plato, surely we can prove he lived, right? the oldest manuscript of plato's apology that we have dates to about 900 a.d., over 1,300 years after the execution of socrates! the next oldest manuscript is in venice and dates from the 13th century a.d.!!

the difference between the life of christ and the life of socrates? jesus' life is better documented. Rylands Papyrus contains portions of the gospel of john and dates to less than one hundred years after the crucifixion of jesus. socrates life was recorded by one contemporary. jesus' by at least eight contemporaries- at least five of whom were eye witnesses.

but we doubt that jesus lived and did all that was recorded of him while socrates is taught in every school. the reason? jesus claimed to be god. and more- was god. and if he is god- and he is- that demands we take action on his claim.

and few of us want to do that. none of us want to be accountable. we all want to live as we desire. i'll end with a reference. i have posted it numerous times these last few months. we can all of look it up. and we should.

romans 3:10-18
I never said that I didn't believe he existed or believe in what he "taught". (which I've heard somewhere that if you add up everything he said in the bible would only amount to two hours of dialog). I fully agree with his message of not judging, giving to the needy and just being kind to people in general.

I am arguing his virgin birth, claim as a god and supposed resurrection. Which I believe that no one witnessed, correct me if I'm wrong. If Lincoln, or anyone else, had made that claim I would seriously doubt that bit of information as well.
- October 27th, 2009, 09:17 am
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Cloud_Strife Cloud_Strife is offline
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dwreese182 wrote :
I am arguing his virgin birth, claim as a god and supposed resurrection. Which I believe that no one witnessed, correct me if I'm wrong.
All three of those things had multiple witnesses, and the as for the latter two items, Jesus himself proclaimed he was the Son of God, and he also appeared to many disciples after his resurrection as a witness to his own resurrection. His virgin birth was of course witnessed by at least both his human parents.

Back to being the son of God, there was also the testimony of John the Baptist and the sign of the spirit descending on him as a dove.

There was also the mountaintop where I believe it was James and Peter who witnessed the voice of God saying "This is my son".
- October 27th, 2009, 09:34 am
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coeuri coeuri is offline
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So if you can hijack your own thread, does that mean that if I am driving from point A to point B and decide to go meandering to J or H instead, that I have stolen my own car?
- October 27th, 2009, 08:14 pm
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dwreese182 dwreese182 is offline
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Cloud_Strife wrote :
All three of those things had multiple witnesses, and the as for the latter two items, Jesus himself proclaimed he was the Son of God, and he also appeared to many disciples after his resurrection as a witness to his own resurrection. His virgin birth was of course witnessed by at least both his human parents.

Back to being the son of God, there was also the testimony of John the Baptist and the sign of the spirit descending on him as a dove.

There was also the mountaintop where I believe it was James and Peter who witnessed the voice of God saying "This is my son".
No offense intended here but I don't give much credit to people who hear "voices". These days we have a word for people who hear voices, Schizophrenics. How many people have claimed to have heard God's voice or said that God came to them in a dream in recent decades? How many deaths have occurred due to these "voices" telling them to do something? Did God talk to them? Is there any way to disprove that it truly wasn't God talking to them? God has hardly made his presence known since biblical times. I see this as humans becoming better informed of their surroundings and not relying on tall tales or magic to explain the unknown.

Seeing Jesus after his death, well hallucinations can occur due to d.r.u.g use (which drugs used for treating illness in those days were not exactly FDA approved) and illness.

As for the parents witnessing the virgin birth, well, there are other explanations for this as well. What would have happened to a woman in those days if she was caught having an affair? Just a thought. I would never have been gullible enough to believe this story if my wife were to tell me such a thing.

Of course I have no evidence of any of this, I just see these explanations far more logical than by means of magic or the supernatural.
- October 29th, 2009, 06:42 am
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coeuri wrote :
So if you can hijack your own thread, does that mean that if I am driving from point A to point B and decide to go meandering to J or H instead, that I have stolen my own car?
I would think this would be more like having ADD. Not so much stealing of your own car.
- October 29th, 2009, 06:45 am
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