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tumbleweed tumbleweed is offline
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tumbleweed tomorrow is ?

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i am a cristen and dont understand why so many cristens wont exsept the truth? now lets take evolution,, we are out of the dark ages and are able to see things as a free person and not by what the church demands,, the bible ,the cornerstone af cristyanity says nothing that wouldnt alow for evoloution as a way god made things to fit so well,,on the other hand the evedence of evolution is all around us
- June 13th, 2009, 01:42 pm
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JennJenn JennJenn is offline
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JennJenn I'm an ensemble player, not a soloist!

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If evolution is true, then the Bible is false. Evolution is nothing but making truths out of small facts taken out of context. It angers me when I see that people claim Christianity yet don't believe in the fact that the world was created completely within six days.

Taking another track: figure in the ten commandments...Why is the second commandment not to create any graven images? Because it's idol worship. It's man creating God instead of God creating man. It puts us over God. We tend to get a "Lucifer" attitude by making God what we want Him to be rather than us being created in His image.

Not meaning any insult, but we Christians need to stay as far away from liberal ideas and science that does not uphold the Word of God. The Word of God is truth. To say that we are evolving is to lie. We are the same today as Adam and Eve were. To deny the science of evolution is to take hold of wisdom. To deny all that science can teach us is to remain ignorant. Science can help us understand more about God if we use it in the correct context. Evolution has no context. There are so many gaps and false evidences that it is really foolish to believe in it. Even Darwin in his later years began to understand the folly of evolution.
- June 22nd, 2009, 02:22 pm
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tumbleweed tumbleweed is offline
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the church has fuaght since its beginning to teach what they have belived to be the truth,, even when they were vary wrong , this has been recorded thru out history, just a few examples are ,, witches ,, the world is acualy round, and we arnt the center of the universe, ,, all this and much more we have learn, not from science but thru science, many great minds hve been silenced due to what they have learned to be true,, when the church has long been in controll of what you can or cant believe,,, i could ask you 1 simple question about the bible you wont be able to answer and it has to do with evolution, ,, now dont assume or add something the bible dosent say,,, if adam and eve were the first,when they had to sons, cane and able, cane was cast out,, who was he afraid of?,,if you can answer this with some kind of truth, not just asumptions or something made up you may have some basis for your belief,, i know you wont be able to answer this as there is nothing to back it,, this is in , well you know exactly were its at ,, in the beginning,, this part of the beginning highly suggest, that ther were other people at the same time as adam and eve or there would be no one for cane to be afraid of?,, and where did he find his wife? if there were no one else ?? none of this have i made up, its all in the bible,,
- June 22nd, 2009, 09:05 pm
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JennJenn JennJenn is offline
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Okay, I don't have a doctoral degree in theology. What you are asking on the second comment is not related to your thread. You're asking where other people came from as opposed to evolution in general. And if evolution really is true and it takes several thousands of years for mutations to fully evolve, how could Cain have married a woman and had children when he didn't even live 1,000 years?

Evolution will always have more gaps than the Bible. I don't have mine with me, but I do know that it states the geneology of men in the chapters after Cain was exiled. We can study the Bible for 10,000 years, dissect it, resect it, in all of it's forms and dialects or just in one, and we will never be able to understand everything that is written in it because we are finite. Because we are finite, so is our knowledge.

John 17:17 states that the Word of God is Truth. Deutoronomy and Proverbs say no man shall add or take away from the Bible. Some things God left out. Probably because that was not important enough to write in. Of course, that is my finite interpretation.

If you want to bank everything on scientific "discoveries," you will abandon your mind to ignorance knowledge and a lot of false truth. I know that may not make sense to some people, but it does to those who are saturated in the Word.

Even Job was asked who he was to question the Word. We weren't there at creation. We certainly were around for any kind of evolution, but the Bible never mentions evolution either. In his pursuit of wisdom, King Solomon even says in Ecclesiastes that anything gained that is not of God is a chasing after the wind, meaningless, a waste of time.

Evolution depends on mutation. The basic underscore theory is a hope of become greater than we are. This is dangerous because it leads to pride. It's an elevation of self and a lowering of God because He wasn't sufficient enough in His creating.

Evolution also de-personalizes God. I don't know about you, but I have a personal relationship with God. To believe in evolution is saying that, "Okay, God started to create the world, but because of His creation ADD, He got sidetracked while protecting His throne from Lucifer's coveting and coup de ta of His reign. Therefore, God didn't finish His job and really doesn't care about creation which means He really didn't have a plan for our salvation."

Let me ask you this: Are you spending as much time studying the Word of God as you are studying the process of evolution? Here's another question: When you read or hear about new scientific discoveries or theories, are you testing that information with the Word of God? Where are your footnotes? Where is the BEEF in evolution? Because all I see is bread. Bread just doesn't hold up to the BEEF.

The world is usually on the opposite side of God because they don't want to admit that they are in need of salvation. We already know which side wins. Yet we have to choose individually which side to bank our faith on when it comes to understanding the world around us.
Last edited by JennJenn; June 24th, 2009 at 08:00 pm.
- June 24th, 2009, 07:48 pm
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dore dore is offline
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tumbleweed wrote :
the church has fuaght since its beginning to teach what they have belived to be the truth,, even when they were vary wrong , this has been recorded thru out history, just a few examples are ,, witches ,,
I think you are referring to the Catholic church? And yes, they have taught as fact, the opinions of man. Of course, we all have a problem with doing that! But the Bible says "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." (Exodus 22:18), so I wonder why you are using this as an example of something
tumbleweed wrote :
vary wrong
that that was taught.

P.S. I'm not advocating the killing of people who claim to be witches, just wondering why teaching Christians that being a witch is a sin would be considered wrong.
Last edited by dore; June 25th, 2009 at 03:11 pm.
- June 25th, 2009, 02:50 pm
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tumbleweed tumbleweed is offline
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witches isnt what this is about , its only an example of a time in history where people were labled witched and killed by the church , most if not all were inocent of any such crime,, its like when they started naming people in this country comunist,,no this is about when given undeniable facts to something and trying too shrug it off as a bunch of foolishness,,if your faith in what you belive is so week that the mear thought that the bible dosent have everything in it to exsplane all , i think it time to take off the blinders that have keep you from the truth,, this thread isnt about science verses the bible, it about how they work together, if we all would open our eyes and ears and actualy listen to the other side we would have less conflict and less wars
- June 25th, 2009, 09:37 pm
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dore dore is offline
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As someone who professes to be a Christian, that means you believe that there is a God; that this same God caused life to spontaneously begin in a virgin; that when that virgin-born child arrived He was lauded by angels and worshipped by shepherds and then later by wise men who had travelled a great distance to do so; that He miraculously escaped the slaughter of all the male children His age; that at age 12 He was teaching the scribes about Himself; that in 3.5 years He built a ministry that made Him a common Name in households; that He performed miracles, healing incurable disease and bringing the dead back to life; that He was beaten beyond recognition but still was hung on a cross where every bone in His body was dislocated, where He has to lift Himself up on his pierced feet to keep from suffocating, yet still did not die until He chose to; that He ROSE FROM THE DEAD!; that His blood sacrifice was sufficient to atone for the sins of every person that has been in existence; that every person who accepted this sacrifice as atonement for their sins has gone to A PLACE CALLED HEAVEN when they died; that one day He will return and bring those still alive that have accepted Him as Savior to heaven with Him. . . . If you can believe that, why can you not believe that this same God was able to create the world in just 6 days?

It isn't that my faith is strong or weak. It is that my God is great.
Last edited by dore; June 26th, 2009 at 08:29 am.
- June 26th, 2009, 08:21 am
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when talking about god and time we can only guess as the bible states he is outside of time, we as spirits held in our bodys are held captive to time,,, no where in the bible does it say that the 6 days were consecutive days,,, it takes 6 days to build a house,, 1st day you prepare the site, 2nd day you build the foundation, the 3rd day you build the framwork, the 4th day you cover the framwork, the 5th day you install the doors and windows, the 6th day you install all the fixtures, the 7th day i rested, so you see it only tock 6 days, but i left a few details out or it would take me to long to exspane the entire process and you my not understand it all,, so i just condenced it and made it simple so all can understand,, now if you a contracter who builds houses you know there is mor to it than just the 6 days i stated, at the time the bible was writen it was to a differant people, today we look at thing and uderstand thing differantly, today we have far more knowledge of how our world works around us than people 2,000 years ago, to refuse all that we have learned through science,, its all right to come out of the dark ages and take off those blinders the church has put on you, i agree with most of what your saying as its the word of god, science isnt out there to destroy god, its only the truth or it wouldnt be science
- June 26th, 2009, 10:03 am
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dore dore is offline
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The Bible says that His Word is settled forever in heaven. It wasn't just written for people who lived 2,000 years ago. It was written to last forever.

We aren't going to agree. I choose to accept by faith. You want proof from those who try to explain away God. I recommend that you watch Ben Stein's "Expelled".
- June 26th, 2009, 01:30 pm
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JennJenn JennJenn is offline
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Ben Stein's movie "Expelled" is an excellent reference Dore! This film was created by a man who doesn't believe in God and quite possibly was trying to explain that God doesn't exist but it supports the fact that there is a Creator.

TW: John 17:17 states that the Word of God is Truth! Science tells us that true virgins can't conceive. Yet Mary did. Mary was a true virgin. Christ's conception is beyond scientific explanation.

You are correct, we need to be aware of new discoveries and facts about our world. Yet those facts need to be tested against Scripture.

I sense that you are hoping for a utopian environment where Christians and others can live in peace. Again, I don't have the Word with me, so I'll paraphrase and you can look up the verse for better understanding. The Israelites hoped for a ruler to sit on a world throne and save them from persecution. But Jesus said that He had come not to bring together, but to divide. Who is He dividing? The righteous from the unrighteous, the just from the unjust, the faithful from the unfaithful. Read through Isaiah, and you will find that God punished Israel for unfaithfulness to Him, and making alliances with nations that were enemies of His because of their wickedness. In fact in Christ's second coming, there will be even greater division of humanity through the rapture and the tribulation. I believe all Christians would like to have peace, but here's the hard fact: Before the Millenial Reign, we will not experience it here on earth. We can't just sit back and let those who deny God, lie against God, persecute God's inheritance or gentile children continue to spread false hope of peace in man. The problem and curse is in man and there will always be one who stirs up trouble.

Our task is not to unite humanity, rather it is to reach the souls who will accept His salvation. There is no way to make sense out of false preaching, and it is a waste of our time to try to do so. We should focus on letting our lives be filled with His truth, living in obedience to God alone, not science, math, reading, social studies, writing, or languages.

For how many years were we taught that Pluto was a planet. Now my solar system is messed up because a few years ago, scientists decided that Pluto doesn't meet planet requirements and is just a star. It's easier to read the Bible and take it as truth. It always meets the canonical requirements and always will because it was authored by an unchanging God.

I believe in a six day creation. I agree with what Dore said, "If you can believe in a Savior of virgin birth, God creating the world in six days isn't much different." Evolution...it has more holes in it than the swiss cheese I have and will consume in my entire life, (and that's a lot of swiss cheese!) Grow in learning and understanding of the world and the Bible. Whenever the world contradicts what is in God's Word, always...always trust in the Word over the world.
- June 26th, 2009, 05:12 pm
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