Advice and Support from Thousands of Users Just Like You

Reply
Page 3 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 Last »
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Minador Minador is offline
Minador's Avatar

Minador on top of the world!

Newbie

Join Date: Sep 2008

Posts: 15

See profile

To be honest, I've only briefly scanned everyone's comments - I just don't have time right now. I've debated this one a lot with scientists and Christians. One thing that has always stood out in my mind is that the Bible isn't a science book. But where it does comment on science/natural principals, it's correct (like accurately describing the water cycle and describing the earth as a sphere not flat, etc.) .

I currently study and use a 4.5 billion year earth as a model (it can help you predict how something will behave; it can help one decide where to look for gold, etc.). But I don't believe that scientists are anywhere near knowing exactly how it all happened (or even just 10% of it). And I don't believe that it happened the way that the current accepted theories hold.

I believe that God created Adam and Eve as mature people (not infants...). Likewise I believe that God made a mature earth system in 6 days. God made the earth hospitable and created life in 6 days (and maybe the entire Universe for that matter, but that's not truly clear...). I believe that God is all powerful and can do whatever he desires.

God created an orderly system. So while God may have created the earth 6,000 or 50,000 years ago, that doesn't mean you can't back-calculate to find a "start" for the solar system being 4.5 billion years ago. That’s basically what scientists are trying to do. It’s logical and correct to attempt to do that. Being created in the image of the Creator, it’s natural for us to try to bring order to things. But using that process, one has to assume that there was nothing greatly affecting the system from the outside (like God creating a mature system).

If one were to see Adam one minute after he was born, you could back calculate his age as 20 years old, but he's still only a minute old...right?? I think it's pretty interesting that this age comparison is similar in scale to the 4,500,000,000 year earth to the 6,000 year comparison.

You can spend lots of time trying to debate this one, but it isn’t easy marrying faith and science. Have fun! o(;?D)
Last edited by Minador; June 30th, 2009 at 09:54 pm. Reason: weird emoticons after the "Sphere" comment...
- June 30th, 2009, 09:50 pm
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#21   Reply With Quote
tumbleweed tumbleweed is offline
tumbleweed's Avatar

tumbleweed tomorrow is ?

Veteran

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 1,094

See profile

test
- July 1st, 2009, 07:41 pm
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#22   Reply With Quote
JennJenn JennJenn is offline
JennJenn's Avatar

JennJenn I'm an ensemble player, not a soloist!

Quick Study

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 197

See profile

Another piece of Scripture against evolution:

Isaiah 44:24 This is what the Lord says- your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb:
I am the Lord, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself.

Coincidentally, I looked up in my Ryrie Study Bible NIV the word evolution, evolved, evolve and did not find one reference. I looked up the word create and found the following words similar to it: create, created, creates, creating, creation, creator. I found 101 (seriously, I counted them,) verses that had to do with the root or a variation of the root word create. If I had Strong's extensive concordance on Biblical Scriptures, I would do the same thing.
- July 1st, 2009, 08:11 pm
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#23   Reply With Quote
tumbleweed tumbleweed is offline
tumbleweed's Avatar

tumbleweed tomorrow is ?

Veteran

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 1,094

See profile

ok then? this isnt about a marrage as they are already part of each other, if this wernt so then lets see,, we would still be riding donkey and we would pull are vehicals around with horses or such, but becuase of what we have learned we have a much easyer lifstyle, i mean thank god for are conditioners, its106 out,, but wait a minute, its not in the bible so it cant exsist? well then thank god for my wild imagination as im staying cool? god dosnt lie to us and play games by putting all the evodence out there to find out the truth, i mean what happened in the garden when they eat from the tree,, yes, the angels were afraid, of what? that if they ate from the other tree they would become just like them, so even god know that if left alone that man would figure it out at some point, so he stopped them and cast them out,,, will he do this again when we come to the point of knowing how it all works?,, i personaly hope he will, as at that point i believe we will destroy ourself, thi is a level we havent got to yet but given time and the chance we will, god even says this in the bible, and if you dont know where it is then you need to study more,, i wont give you passeges or one linners from the bible becuase i believe that would be taking things out of context, you need to know the entire pitcher to realy understand, read the hole story, dont just take one line and try to make some kind of meaning from it,, im not a good speller but i can wright all this with out refencing my bible,, ive read it many times so i can do this from the top of my head,, not that i know all ,,just like you guies i learn more each day, so far i havent heard a valid statement from bibleas to what im asking, as a matter of factmost of what im hearing confirms what im saying,,i mean come on his sister?? ive heard that before,, the only problem about believing that its againt your own argument about not adding to the bible,, here ill give you a lesson straight from the bible, read the first 2 chapters of the bible,, in chapter 1 you will see he creats man and weman ,, puts them out in the world and tells them to be fruiful and subdue the world,,,, in chapter 2 its completly differant, he creats adam and put him in the garden he has prepared for him, after some time he see that adam is lonly, so he brings all the animales to him but cant find a sutable companion for him,, so then he creates eve,, ??? so not adding and not taking away , this is saying he created 2 sets of people,, so this would exsplane where cain got his wife and who he was afraid of,,
- July 1st, 2009, 08:30 pm
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#24   Reply With Quote
tumbleweed tumbleweed is offline
tumbleweed's Avatar

tumbleweed tomorrow is ?

Veteran

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 1,094

See profile

[quote=JennJenn;659639]Another piece of Scripture against evolution:

Isaiah 44:24 This is what the Lord says- your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb:this is a vary good example of how god uses science to do what he does,,as thru science we have figured this much out
- July 1st, 2009, 08:43 pm
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#25   Reply With Quote

ADVERTISEMENT

Minador Minador is offline
Minador's Avatar

Minador on top of the world!

Newbie

Join Date: Sep 2008

Posts: 15

See profile

Tumbleweed,

I agree with you that just because the Bible doesn't address a particular subject, doesn't mean that subject is fantasy or invalid. That's my exact point. The Bible isn't a science book. That's what I mean by it being difficult to marry science and faith. They're very different things. I have a degree in engineering and a minor in geoscience, so while I don't have a PhD in astronomy, biology or geoscience, I think I'm still somewhat knowledgeable on the subject of science. What I know of the subject just doesn’t convince me that Evolution is foolproof and that science will ever have all the answers. The more I learn, the more I realize how little we know.

I do know that I have faith in the Bible and the Bible teaches that God created the earth and all life, and it says he did it in 6 days. I can’t prove that to anyone, and I can only point to the Bible. I believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, and that if he really meant 6 billion years instead of a 6 day creation as the book of Genesis relates, then he would have made sure that the writers wrote 6 billion years... If the Bible had said that God created the earth in 6 billion years, I’d believe in a 6 billion year creation as much as I currently believe in a 6 day creation. But it doesn't say that. Also there are just too many supernatural occurrences in the Bible that science can’t explain. And you can’t say they are just symbolism and metaphor. Christ performed overt supernatural acts and spoke of them and acknowledged them (including those from the Old Testament). Science cannot fully explain any of them, and some scientists scoff at them. To me it’s further proof that science is inadequate to explain reality.

Either science is right and only physical laws rule supreme (and miracles are fantasy), or there are physical laws in the Universe, but God can bend and change them as he wills. Another possibility is that we don’t really understand science and we are overlooking pure science or the fullness of science. Christ and others did miracles in the Bible and science has no way to explain them. That doesn’t mean science proves that miracles are false. Science is based on careful observation and analysis of data, and there were no scientists observing the miracles so we can’t explain them. There were no scientists observing the creation of the earth either. If you had 2 groups of scientists, one group who witnessed God create Adam, and those who were introduced to Adam later, the 2 groups would disagree regarding the age of Adam. Do you believe that Christ and the Apostles raised the dead and restored bodies which were disfigured and/or stunted since birth? How do you explain the spiritual world? Sciences says when you’re dead, you cease to exist. But Christ teaches that our spirits go on forever. Who do you believe in that case: science or the Bible? What is the point of being a Christian if God is irrelevant and nothing happens when you die? If that were the case, it’s best to study worldly wisdom and focus on amassing wealth so you can afford to experience the best things in life and see all the world.

My PhD professors at the University said that science can never prove anything, just disprove things. And I can give you many “clear and undisputable proven scientific theories” which now are disproven. Does that mean I will ignore science and current theories? Certainly not! I’ll use the theories if they help to predict outcomes under certain conditions. For myself, I think it’s unwise to choose to embrace secular wisdom over Biblical wisdom. Often I find that they both work hand in hand... I just don’t see harmony between creation and evolution...

Interesting bringing up the idea of people being formed in the womb: Scripture indicates that God knows us before our birth, yet current scientific wisdom says that sentient life begins at birth. Otherwise abortion would be inhumane. That’s yet another very big disconnect between God’s teaching and “scientific wisdom”.

Enjoy your discussion!
- July 1st, 2009, 10:01 pm
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#26   Reply With Quote
tumbleweed tumbleweed is offline
tumbleweed's Avatar

tumbleweed tomorrow is ?

Veteran

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 1,094

See profile

MINADO, what can i say but wow! this is vary good and i do say this with all respect, you have done your homework,,,i will try to answer all that you are asking here,,#1 it was moses who wrote genesis,you stated writers, i think it is inportant to know who where and why something has been written as it leads to a better understanding of what is all about,,,,#2 the more i learn the more i realize how little we know, yes i do agree, ithink this is a quote but not shur who, #3 what is the point of being cristen if god is erreevent?,,not shur where you picked this up but its not wha i said, #4 i do know i have faith in the bible, i do agrre with you on this,, #5 there are way to many supernatutual occurrences in the bible that science cant explane ,,you are right on this one BUT just like the conversation we we are now having youd probly agree that in the biblical days they would have said would be inpossible, this is evodencethat in 2,000 years of science we now take the impossible and make it possible , your recieving and responding to this is all the proff i need,,this goes for all the miricals in the bible, i dont dout they happened but i do believe evetually science will figure it out, yes even rasing the dead, #6eather science is right and only psyical laws rule supreme [and miricals are a fantasy] ,,yes we are governed by these laws around us but then again i believe that the knowledge is out there to change all this,,, leonardo devinchi one of the brightest minds ever drew working diagrams for a working hello copter, this was long befor it was possible to build one most people who belive in the cristen god belive that nothing is inpossible for him,this is a belief of ifinte possibilitys, if you agree with this, then?? think about it?? i think you know what im getting at ? your pretty smart
Last edited by tumbleweed; July 2nd, 2009 at 01:45 am. Reason: te
- July 2nd, 2009, 01:15 am
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#27   Reply With Quote
JennJenn JennJenn is offline
JennJenn's Avatar

JennJenn I'm an ensemble player, not a soloist!

Quick Study

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 197

See profile

To clear the air, when I said that Cain married his sister, I didn't give any Biblical reference because it is NOT in the Bible like you said. However, I did say that as a creationist believer, I did state that it is a logical assumption that Cain would marry his one of his sister's. The Bible in Genesis 1:27 states that on the 6th day, "God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 1:28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
There is no reference of God placing men and women into the earth. He says here to be fruitful and fill the earth. Also take notice that in the creation of man, it is singular: God created man...He created him. The only plural reference is when "female" is included in the history: male and female He created them.

Genesis 2 is an account of the creation of man and woman, not a separate event as you suggest. This is before woman is created: Verse 15 states The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. Man, Adam was supposed to tend to the Garden. He's already been created. This is before the command to be fruitful and fill the earth. Verse 18: The Lord God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him." Verse 19a: Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air (God formed/created all things.) Verse 20, we find the name of man for the first time, Adam who is unable to find a suitable mate from all of the beasts. If other men and women were created and on the earth, why would God need to create Eve from Adam's rib?

As far as referencing what the Bible says compared to what worldly wisdom says, I am still standing on that statement. Anything that goes against the grain of the Bible is false. Evolution is completely against what is written in the Bible because like I said before, it establishes that all things are not created by God. The Bible specifically states that God formed all of life. An AC unit is not life. Inventions are not life. Don't be ridiculous about this. Let's stay focused on the topic that was started: Christians and science with a sub-topic of evolution in your first post, that is my argument. We as Christians are responsible to reference the Bible and prove or disprove what the world says is true. Wisdom is found in the Bible and neglecting to reference it when trying to prove or disprove a point is foolish (in my opinion.) But hey, that's just me.

And yes, Moses was responsible for writing the first five books, but what about the other 61. Different men, but one Author, God.
- July 2nd, 2009, 07:32 am
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#28   Reply With Quote
dore dore is offline
dore's Avatar

Quick Study

Join Date: Aug 2008

Posts: 58

See profile

Colossian 1: 16-17- For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

John 1: 3- All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
- July 2nd, 2009, 07:51 am
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#29   Reply With Quote
JennJenn JennJenn is offline
JennJenn's Avatar

JennJenn I'm an ensemble player, not a soloist!

Quick Study

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 197

See profile

[quote=tumbleweed;659675]
JennJenn wrote :
Another piece of Scripture against evolution:

Isaiah 44:24 This is what the Lord says- your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb:this is a vary good example of how god uses science to do what he does,,as thru science we have figured this much out
What was first, God or science. Science did not form us, God does. Science only tries to explain how things happen. Sometimes science is correct, sometimes it is not.
- July 2nd, 2009, 10:32 am
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#30   Reply With Quote

ADVERTISEMENT

Reply
Page 3 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 Last »

Bookmarks

« World Religions vs. Christianity | Array | October 2009 Check in »
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Latest on our Dating Advice Discussion Boards

“If you can txt then you can also pick up the phone and call. Since Thanksgiving is essentially here, the time is not really that big of an issue. You call call/txt chat and pick a concrete date to ... ” – DancingFool

Join the “not sure what to do...???” discussion

“What seems like the best way of meeting people....is to meet the friends of my friends. Then, maybe meet and become friends with their friends (at least the ones I feel some kinship with)....then ... ” – jayjay

Join the “Places to meet people IRL” discussion

“Follow the bouncing ball op's you missed it. No body is forcing her to stay with him, so why is she there? If she wanted him out she could get a restraining order! I would say anyone who picks out ... ” – nightling

Join the “Frustrated & Confused: Is He A Sexual Addict???” discussion

“Dancingfool has explained it very well in the above and several previous posts.To the OP: Let 'er go and move on. There's not enough years left in life for you to analyze her every statement to the ... ” – Jato87

Join the “What do you make of this statement?” discussion

“Seems like he likes you and went out of his way to tease you a little. It's all good fun. To answer your question - he bothered because you did catch his attention. The better question is how quickly ... ” – DancingFool

Join the “Opinions please” discussion

“I liked what you said about why you are dating around. I think that is a fair enough thing to explain if they start to insist on knowing whether you are dating multiple people. Right now you're just ... ” – nightling

Join the “Ethical Considerations In Dating Multiple People” discussion

“A woman making more than me? Hello sugar momma! In reference to the OP, you'll never know a woman is this way unless they're upfront. I've seen it from all angles too, not just money. I say just go ... ” – kneo24

Join the “"I won't date a guy unless he makes as much money as me."” discussion

“I can only agree with everyone else and would only add one important thing - this was not a unilateral decision that he made. It was even more his ex-gf's choice than his and yes, he supported her ... ” – DancingFool

Join the “Bad Past, Good” discussion



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:40 pm.

Discussion Boards Archive

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0