littlebluemonkeymind is offline littlebluemonkeymind Post #71  February 2,2012, 7:45am
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Like it or not, marriage is a community-property contract except in those few states left where it isn't. It's the contract you sign when you get married. When the marriage fails, you do not have the option of retroactively negating the contract.

Is it fair? Not always.

I'm not really interested in arguing with anyone about how division of property should work. I keep hearing terms like "a man's stuff" and "ward of the greater-earning spouse" and what that tells me is that I'd better damn well have earnings parity or even superiority or else if and when it all falls apart all those years of "we" is going to become a giant "me" fest.

Which shouldn't really surprise me, but it never fails to disappoint that people only look at success, contribution and loss in terms of material assets.

And what I'm saying, Mike, is that if I marry a man who makes half what I make I do so understanding from the start that a dissolution of the marriage will likely result in my contributing significantly to his net worth and subtracting from mine - and I have no right to whine about that or hold the next man liable because I made that choice...as many people do every day.

ETA: And I'm sure you know as well as I do many men who prefer their wives not work or not work at anything serious that will render a decent standard of living. Those are primarily the cases I'm talking about when I talk about equality in relationships. If you're willing to pay a woman (support her) to stay home and be at your beck and call, then yes, you owe her a standard of living with the marriage dissolves.
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littlebluemonkeymind is offline littlebluemonkeymind Post #72  February 2,2012, 7:53am
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jimmyh452 wrote :
This just makes no sense. Women getting half+ of a man's stuff is not equal rights it's special treatment. If she has to go back to the way she was living before she met him, how is that not fair?

I just don't understand why some females are so entitlement minded that they think that just because a man propped up their standard of living that they're now permanently entitled to that standard of living. It's insane. Alimony made sense in the past when a woman didn't work and had no income. A divorce then left a woman destitute so it makes sense that she be covered until she gets a job or remarried. And even then there should be a 10 year max obligation of alimony.
Jimmy,

I agree with you that alimony is mostly a defunct institution except in the case where one parent or the other stayed out of the work force to raise children (or at the demands of the spounse, for that matter).

Division of assets acquired during the marriage, though, whole different story.

And we are way off topic. I've managed to turn this into a divorce thread before the poor OP has even decided whether or not to live with her boyfriend.
 
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jimmyh452 is offline jimmyh452 Post #73  February 2,2012, 8:13am
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littlebluemonkeymind wrote :
I'm not really interested in arguing with anyone about how division of property should work. I keep hearing terms like "a man's stuff" and "ward of the greater-earning spouse" and what that tells me is that I'd better damn well have earnings parity or even superiority or else if and when it all falls apart all those years of "we" is going to become a giant "me" fest.
Isn't that the very purpose of divorce proceedings? To equitably dissolve the "contract" and divide assets in an equitable fashion. Each party coming into the divorce with a bias towards self and an attempt to maximize one's own best interest? Of course a divorce is a "me fest". Once papers are filed, "we" is over and it's is and should be about "me".


wrote :
And what I'm saying, Mike, is that if I marry a man who makes half what I make I do so understanding from the start that a dissolution of the marriage will likely result in my contributing significantly to his net worth and subtracting from mine - and I have no right to whine about that or hold the next man liable because I made that choice...as many people do every day.
And no self respecting man would expect you to prop him up permanently if the marriage ended. The same can not be said about many women.

wrote :
ETA: And I'm sure you know as well as I do many men who prefer their wives not work or not work at anything serious that will render a decent standard of living. Those are primarily the cases I'm talking about when I talk about equality in relationships. If you're willing to pay a woman (support her) to stay home and be at your beck and call, then yes, you owe her a standard of living with the marriage dissolves.
I can't agree with this as I absolutely expect my woman to contribute. Any woman who thinks she's going to be a stay at home mommy for 18 years need not apply. I certainly would like my wife to fulfill her evolutionary role as primary caregiver while the kids are still babies but back to work she goes when they reach school age.
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Ingytravel is offline Ingytravel Post #74  February 2,2012, 8:29am
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As LBMM stated....the poor OP has asked us about moving in and not about dividing assets after a divorce. Thankfully there are just as many divorces that didn't end so bitterly as to discourage others from wanting to get married. No need to drag out everyone's terrible experiences with divorce on this particular thread taking it far off course.

OP....it sounds like you are thinking ahead even though there is a time constraint with this decision. The key is protecting both of you financially and making the best possible decisions at THIS stage which is you all being boyfriend and girlfriend...

We wish you luck!
 
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littlebluemonkeymind is offline littlebluemonkeymind Post #75  February 2,2012, 8:37am
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jimmyh452 wrote :
Isn't that the very purpose of divorce proceedings? To equitably dissolve the "contract" and divide assets in an equitable fashion. Each party coming into the divorce with a bias towards self and an attempt to maximize one's own best interest? Of course a divorce is a "me fest". Once papers are filed, "we" is over and it's is and should be about "me".


And no self respecting man would expect you to prop him up permanently if the marriage ended. The same can not be said about many women.

I can't agree with this as I absolutely expect my woman to contribute. Any woman who thinks she's going to be a stay at home mommy for 18 years need not apply. I certainly would like my wife to fulfill her evolutionary role as primary caregiver while the kids are still babies but back to work she goes when they reach school age.
I believe you're arguing against alimony/maintenance payments and not against an equitable division of assets (equitable according to current laws, not according to individual definitions), right? If that's the case, we're saying the same thing. Alimony is outmoded except in cases where a woman (or man) has been encouraged or allowed to not create the ability to earn a reasonable income. In those cases I do think support is reasonable until they are able to support themselves at a sustainable level (note sustainable again according to an objective standard, not individual ones).

But again and again I hear something along the lines of "why should she get half of my stuff if the marriage ends when I made more money than her and I paid for all that stuff." And the answer is...because that's the contract you signed. If you're lucky, you choose a partner who's reasonable and fair minded but, as you said, divorce is a "me" fest, which is how things like community property laws came to be.
 
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Wiseman2 is online now Wiseman2 Post #76  February 2,2012, 8:50am
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Agree"
Mike74 wrote :
Clearly, this thread has drifted a bit from the original topic. Janesmith, I think you should live with your BF on a temporary basis while you find suitable independent housing. If during that temporary basis you and he decide that things are going well enough to make the arrangement permanent, then you can do so. If you find that you're not ready to live together, then you can proceed to move out, with a lesser chance of bruised egos or upset expectations. Good luck!
Agree:
littlebluemonkeymind wrote :
I've managed to turn this into a divorce thread before the poor OP has even decided whether or not to live with her boyfriend.
Agree:
Ingytravel wrote :
OP has asked us about moving in and not about dividing assets after a divorce.No need to drag out everyone's terrible experiences with divorce on this particular thread taking it far off course.
 
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harnomygirl is offline harnomygirl Post #77  February 2,2012, 9:24am
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D_Lion wrote :
Putting her on the mortgage is of no economic value to him
I wasn't suggesting he do that.
 
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AndieIsMe is online now AndieIsMe — Advice Member-Moderator Post #78  February 2,2012, 9:29am
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Let's get back to the OP which is about the OP moving in with her boyfriend and suggestions for making this successful.
 
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janesmithfromoc is offline janesmithfromoc Post #79  February 2,2012, 1:59pm
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Ingytravel wrote :
As LBMM stated....the poor OP has asked us about moving in and not about dividing assets after a divorce. Thankfully there are just as many divorces that didn't end so bitterly as to discourage others from wanting to get married. No need to drag out everyone's terrible experiences with divorce on this particular thread taking it far off course.

OP....it sounds like you are thinking ahead even though there is a time constraint with this decision. The key is protecting both of you financially and making the best possible decisions at THIS stage which is you all being boyfriend and girlfriend...

We wish you luck!

THANK YOU!!!
 
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janesmithfromoc is offline janesmithfromoc Post #80  February 2,2012, 2:03pm
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No worries! You guys have given more a lot to think about. They are all real experiences I may or may not experience in the near future. It's something to think about!

Thank you all!
 
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