True contrition or just talk?


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lindseyk is offline lindseyk Post #1  February 19,2010, 1:51pm

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I've been turning the whole issue of apologies over in my mind for the last little while. What does it really mean to say, "I'm sorry?" Are they just words or do they mean more? What does a true apology look like?

To my mind, an apology implies real remorse and that a change of behaviour is forthcoming. I know that changing bad behaviour takes time and that we don't always get it right as we are in the process of changing, but shouldn't the effort still be there to reach the desired, positive outcome? If a person is truly sorry for what they have said or done, wouldn't they make some effort to do better? Just saying, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry . . . " but then carrying on doing the same thing over and over again renders the apology meaningless, doesn't it? Why say you are sorry if you have no intention of stopping whatever it was you were doing that necessitated the apology in the first place? Don't apologize until you are really sorry and are ready to put in the effort to change.

Also, is an apology really an apology if it always comes with an excuse? "I'm sorry, but . . . I had a bad day at work." I'm sorry, but . . . I have a headache." I'm sorry, but . . . I'm stressed out." "I'm sorry, but . . . you really shouldn't take offense because . . . " Etc. It's much harder to say, "I'm sorry, I was wrong and I hurt you." It means taking for responsibility for whatever happened. "I did this and it hurt you. I'm sorry, please forgive me." That is not an easy thing to say. It's hard not to justify harmful or offensive behaviour and I think there is a natural tendency to look for a way out of things sometimes. But then what does that say to the person receiving the apology? Has the person apologizing really owned up to what they did? Are they really sorry or are they just saying the words? Sometimes there really is a good reason, but a lot of times, there isn't it and the apology really just becomes one more excuse or way to justify things that cause others pain.

Thoughts?
 
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D_Lion is online now D_Lion Post #2  February 19,2010, 1:56pm
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My view is that most "apologies" are motivated by nothing more than a desire to minimize upset; some are out-and-out deceipt, and only a few are sincere regret.

I agree, that a necessary element in a true apology is a plan to adequately reimburse the wronged party, and a strategy for corrective action going forward.

***

"Apologies" with excuses are often a sign of a process-change being needed. As we saw in the "flaky people" thread, persons who know they are forgetful can design accomodations to mitigate the occurance consequences due to forgetfullness.
Last edited by D_Lion; February 19,2010 at 1:58pm.
 
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ThePriestess is online now ThePriestess Post #3  February 19,2010, 2:21pm
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lindseyk wrote :
Also, is an apology really an apology if it always comes with an excuse?
Depends ... just as you said above, pennance is meaningless without the desire and effort to change the behavior. Reasons/excuses don't necessarily imply a lack of this ... we've all done or said things we wish we could retract and/or correct ... sometimes we really are having a bad day ... sometimes we don't recognize the negative implications of our choices ... sometimes we're just stupid :P
 
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lindseyk is offline lindseyk Post #4  February 19,2010, 2:45pm

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ThePriestess wrote :
Depends ... just as you said above, pennance is meaningless without the desire and effort to change the behavior. Reasons/excuses don't necessarily imply a lack of this ... we've all done or said things we wish we could retract and/or correct ... sometimes we really are having a bad day ... sometimes we don't recognize the negative implications of our choices ... sometimes we're just stupid :P
I think there are definitely times when there is a reason for having messed up and I think it's entirely reasonable to make that reason known. I just think that sometimes the person apologizing is really only looking for a way to minimize their own culpability. It's really hard to say, "I'm sorry, I was wrong. I messed up," without reaching for some kind of explanation, but sometimes that's what needs to be said. Sometimes a person really just needs to admit that they acted in a horrible way or said something really hurtful - even if it is terribly humbling and possibly even humiliating. I've been there. It's not fun, but it's worth it in terms of healing a wound in a relationship and also for personal growth.
 
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ThePriestess is online now ThePriestess Post #5  February 19,2010, 2:58pm
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lindseyk wrote :
I just think that sometimes the person apologizing is really only looking for a way to minimize their own culpability.
I'm sure it happens often enough ... but I think it all really goes back to the same thing as the offering of an apology in the first place ... that being the true sentiment of regret and a desire to make contrition.
 
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ami1uwant is online now ami1uwant Post #6  February 19,2010, 3:04pm
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D_Lion wrote :

***

"Apologies" with excuses are often a sign of a process-change being needed. As we saw in the "flaky people" thread, persons who know they are forgetful can design accomodations to mitigate the occurance consequences due to forgetfullness.
I am sorry he is sucj an ar$$

Sure some are lies and some are for other reasons. But I don feel apologizes are legitamate because you dont know all the sensitivities a person has and their perspective on things. Say for example you might make a silly joke to many of those you dates...19 of the 20 got the joke and werent offended at all..while one broke down in tears because of something you didnt know from your experiences and dint expect to hurt her feelings..
 
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lindseyk is offline lindseyk Post #7  February 19,2010, 3:16pm

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ami1uwant wrote :
I am sorry he is sucj an ar$$

Sure some are lies and some are for other reasons. But I don feel apologizes are legitamate because you dont know all the sensitivities a person has and their perspective on things. Say for example you might make a silly joke to many of those you dates...19 of the 20 got the joke and werent offended at all..while one broke down in tears because of something you didnt know from your experiences and dint expect to hurt her feelings..
I guess that's when I would feel compelled to say outright, "I can see that I have offended you. I'm sorry." No excuses. No explaining that I've told the joke nineteen times before and always got a laugh. I would just apologize and acknowledge that person's hurt. It doesn't matter how many people laughed at the joke before, it wasn't funny to that particular person and they deserve my sincere regret for offending them.
 
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MelinCali is offline MelinCali Post #8  February 19,2010, 3:37pm
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lindseyk wrote :
I've been turning the whole issue of apologies over in my mind for the last little while. What does it really mean to say, "I'm sorry?" Are they just words or do they mean more? What does a true apology look like?

To my mind, an apology implies real remorse and that a change of behaviour is forthcoming. I know that changing bad behaviour takes time and that we don't always get it right as we are in the process of changing, but shouldn't the effort still be there to reach the desired, positive outcome? If a person is truly sorry for what they have said or done, wouldn't they make some effort to do better? Just saying, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry . . . " but then carrying on doing the same thing over and over again renders the apology meaningless, doesn't it? Why say you are sorry if you have no intention of stopping whatever it was you were doing that necessitated the apology in the first place? Don't apologize until you are really sorry and are ready to put in the effort to change.
To me an apology is an expression acknowledging that you see your actions have caused someone else pain and you regret that you made them feel that way.

It is by no means a resolution to change the behavior that caused the reason to be sorry. It is not a commitment to change who the person is to avoid future upset. The words expressing the desire to change are completely separate.

To believe that an apology is a promise of changing behavior is placing your own wishes into those words, IMO.

lindseyk wrote :
Also, is an apology really an apology if it always comes with an excuse? "I'm sorry, but . . . I had a bad day at work." I'm sorry, but . . . I have a headache." I'm sorry, but . . . I'm stressed out." "I'm sorry, but . . . you really shouldn't take offense because . . . " Etc. It's much harder to say, "I'm sorry, I was wrong and I hurt you." It means taking for responsibility for whatever happened. "I did this and it hurt you. I'm sorry, please forgive me." That is not an easy thing to say. It's hard not to justify harmful or offensive behaviour and I think there is a natural tendency to look for a way out of things sometimes. But then what does that say to the person receiving the apology? Has the person apologizing really owned up to what they did? Are they really sorry or are they just saying the words? Sometimes there really is a good reason, but a lot of times, there isn't it and the apology really just becomes one more excuse or way to justify things that cause others pain.

Thoughts?
I think an apology can come with an excuse, or as I prefer it, a reason.

It can be important to give a reason to put the feelings at the time of the offense and apology into context. For example, I recently had a disagreement over something I think is incredibly trivial, but at the time I was making it a huge issue because I was having a really off day. I woke up the next day back to myself thinking how stupid I had been reacting because I really wasn't feeling myself -- I recognize that I was being an idiot, I was sorry for it and I can't even remember what it was about anymore.

These things happen in every relationship from time to time. People do have a bad day or a headache once in a while and these things can alter the way we interact with others in a way that can lead to an unintended hurt. In relationships, we do need remorse and forgiveness and understanding when someone is having a bad day, because we are all human and carp is going to happen that makes us behave in a way that isn't all too loving once in a while.

Now if we are talking about a pattern of behavior, as I think you are lindsey, that is different. I think you are speaking about someone altering their behavior in a way that must come from altering who they are first.

"I'm sorry" in these cases probably means that the person still doesn't want to hurt you, but can't change who they are to keep from behaving the same way over and over. IMO, the remorse for causing heartache can still be sincere -- they are not a bad person who wishes misery upon another person, but at the same time, can't fight who they are to prevent it from happening.

The explanations then are really excuses if almost everyday is a bad day -- something much bigger is wrong with the picture than a simple transgression that might have a reason and needs an apology.
Last edited by MelinCali; February 19,2010 at 3:41pm.
 
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lindseyk is offline lindseyk Post #9  February 19,2010, 3:47pm

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You make a lot of sense, Mel.

You're right, I guess I'm talking more about the pattern of behaviour than about typical apologies.
 
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Wootz is offline Wootz Post #10  February 19,2010, 4:07pm
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When people add reasons to an apology, they are searching for understanding as well as showing contrition- example: "I'm sorry I hurt you. I did not intend to." When you've stepped on one of those emotional landmines that comes with a new relationship, and you want to show that you are not a cruel person.

When people add excuses to an apology, they are trying to shift blame- example:"I'm sorry I hurt you. I did not intend to." When a drunk has just lashed out in anger, for example. See how they sound the same? Context is key, as Mel put so well.

One thing I will add, I believe that actions speak louder than words in an apology. In a big way. My father taught me, without really making it explicit, that when I really foul up, it is up to *me* to make it right. Those three words mean a lot. It means to me that there is a kind of balance that has been upset, and I have to give something of myself to right that balance. Sometimes doing this is very, very hard, and it can be a very humbling experience.

If there has been a significant foul up, the onus is on the one giving the apology to suit actions to words and make it right. I do not believe one can really be sorry without this. Well, I can believe sorry that they got caught, sorry that they are in this unhappy situation, sure. But truly contrite and ashamed of their actions without actually doing the work to make it right? Doesn't fly with me. If I mess up, I know I'm going to have to eat some crow and do what it takes to make it right. I don't see a bit of a problem measuring anyone else by the same moral standard.
 
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