Fergie_Racer is offline Fergie_Racer Post #1  August 5,2009, 8:44pm
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I met a great woman on a dating service 6 months ago. We had both been looking for a while, and when we met it just clicked right away. We started slow, usually a date on the week ends and chatting during the week, but we didn't go overboard and jump into a relationship too fast. We then started seeing more of each other, introducing each other to our friends, meeting each other's families, and eventually spending the night with each other. We have a lot in common, similar life goals, and love each other's company. I few months ago we both confessed that we have fallen in love with each other, but we never fight/argue which concerns me.

She has been working at a summer camp for the past month and a half, and lives 3 1/2 hours north of me. I'm also going through some really tough financial times right now because of medical bills, and I haven't really explained that to her in details. She asks why I'm always broke (even though I have a decent job), and I just tell her it's for some medical bills, and she nods and we move on. Well I only went to see her at her summer camp twice since she has been up there. Mainly because I just didn't have the gas money to get up there. I could tell through our frequent calls and chats that she was bothered, but didn't tell me what it was. I went up to go see her last week end, and every thing went great. We had a great time, took some nice long walks, went for a bike ride, had a lovely diner to celebrate our 6 month anaversary, and we were both happy as could be. On Saunday before diner, we were getting cleaned up, and while she was in the shower, I hopped on her computer. While I was waiting for the computer to boot up, I noticed a notebook on her desk. It wasn't marked, and I don't know what compelled me to look at it, but I opened it up to the last page (she's working on her PHd, so I thought it was some notes on that). I quickly realized that it was a personal journal, and closed it, but I also noticed my name writen on the page. Cruiosity took over, and I read it. She talked about how she was very concerned about me and my financial problems. She also mentioned my unneatness (discusting habits), and that I can't support her emotionally while she gets rejected (for the second time) on a mortgage for a house she wants to buy (on her own).

I was really shocked about this. It blindsided me, as she has never mentioned any of these concerns to me. Instead of getting upset about it, I decided I would use the knowledge to correct these concerns and strengthen our relationship. I try to be as supportive as I can, and I love her and would do anything for her, so I'm happy to change , with in reason, if that would please her. The problem I'm having is about morals and ethics. I violated her privacy, and read her personal thoughts. I did not bring this up with her, but I know that she knows that I was "different" at dinner. Not in a bad way, but I explained that I was getting my financial problems under control, and that I realize I haven't been as supportive to her during her mortgage woes. She mentioned to me that during our camping trip next week, that we need to talk through some concerns she has (that I already know about), and I already plan to start improving my self to correct these concerns.

I guess the question I have is, should I tell her that I read her journal? I know she would be upset if I told her, but I'm also an honest person. I don't intend to read her journal any more, and I'm using the knowledge I gained to ultimately strengthen our relationship, so the outcome is positive. I'm looking at it as a "lucky break", and if I don't tell her, we both win and no one gets hurt, but I'll always know that I violated her privacy. If I tell her, she will be upset, but if she really loves me then she will forgive me. It's not like I seeked out her journal to gain an edge, it was just a dumb mistake that I picked it up (part of me thinks she intended for me to read it). I love her with all my heart, and I've been ring shopping for the big question.

What should I do???
 
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Nanette is offline Nanette Post #2  August 5,2009, 9:28pm
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wrote :
and I read it.
you realize what a huge breach of trust this is, don't you?

I really can't think of anything else to say to you.
 
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Harvey7 is offline Harvey7 Post #3  August 5,2009, 9:53pm

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First things first, You should find a debt counselor that offers his or her services for a reasonable fee amount, everyone has bills to pay. They can negotiate a much better deal for you then you can for yourself and work up a budget that will let you live and include gas money to raise your standard of living.

Why are you so willing to change yourself for a girlfriend, who you do not know if you have a future with or not? That should be the 2nd. item on your list, but don't rush it. If you guys do want a future together you definitely will need couples counseling. I would never mention to her at anytime in the present or the future that you read her journal! How would you feel if she went through your cell phone and read your text msg's and then your wallet? See if you guys can structure a plan for the future and if there is a future and if not just be friends but move on.

How are you supposed help her to get a mortgage, when you are having a problem getting gas money for your car to go see her?
What you did do was give us some insight on your emotional state and of your relationship, but you omitted a lot of factual information.
How old is she? Does she have a job? How does she plan to repay the loan? Does she want to have a future with you? Does she want a real estate partner or a partner in life? Your perceptions are not those of an engineer, rather an immature and unsavory teen who lacks exposure. That is why I suggested some counseling.

While you have training and an academic background your decision making process could use some polishing. Your trying to make an integrity or moral issue out of a commonsense issue, move on get past it.

Harvey7.
Last edited by Harvey7; August 5,2009 at 10:00pm.
 
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Nanette is offline Nanette Post #4  August 5,2009, 10:05pm
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hey i just thought of another thing to say

if you dont tell her you are depriving her of making a decision about you and your character based on a lie of omission. if you want any kind of solid relationship with this person, youll step up and tell her and let the chips fall where they may.


 
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IcecreamMoon is offline IcecreamMoon Post #5  August 5,2009, 10:09pm
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Oooh... this is rich! Glad her private life was of service to you.
 
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gothustartus is offline gothustartus Post #6  August 6,2009, 1:58am
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It was wrong to read her journal and it was doubly wrong to then present this sudden change in the level of your support, based as it was on the contents of that journal, as your own recognition of a personal shortcoming and subsequent change of heart.
It would have been better having made the first mistake if you had sat down with her and talked about what you'd read and her concerns, it certainly would have been more honourable, because it is difficult to see how she can now see your behaviour since as anything other than manipulative.
Had you told her then she may have seen it as the honest mistake you say it was, shrugged it off and moved on with the pair of you working as a team to better your relationship, but you used it to further your own position in the relationship so all honesty has gone out the window, the team got hung out to dry. Even if that wasn't the conscious intent it was the result.
The fact that you think it is ultimately to her benefit is not even remotely relevant, the end does not justify the means. Her privacy and trust has been violated and her emotions manipulated in a mercenary fashion as a result. Every day that this relationship continues without her having the chance to decide how offended she is or whether to forgive the breach is one more day living a lie.
Last edited by gothustartus; August 6,2009 at 2:02am.
 
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tweet37 is offline tweet37 Post #7  August 6,2009, 3:50am
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gothustartus wrote :
It was wrong to read her journal and it was doubly wrong to then present this sudden change in the level of your support, based as it was on the contents of that journal, as your own recognition of a personal shortcoming and subsequent change of heart.
It would have been better having made the first mistake if you had sat down with her and talked about what you'd read and her concerns, it certainly would have been more honourable, because it is difficult to see how she can now see your behaviour since as anything other than manipulative.
Had you told her then she may have seen it as the honest mistake you say it was, shrugged it off and moved on with the pair of you working as a team to better your relationship, but you used it to further your own position in the relationship so all honesty has gone out the window, the team got hung out to dry. Even if that wasn't the conscious intent it was the result.
The fact that you think it is ultimately to her benefit is not even remotely relevant, the end does not justify the means. Her privacy and trust has been violated and her emotions manipulated in a mercenary fashion as a result. Every day that this relationship continues without her having the chance to decide how offended she is or whether to forgive the breach is one more day living a lie.
Yes but...
And given that...

Just put what you now know in your pocket and work on the things that you say will strengthen the relationship. And don't do anything like that again. Repeatedly crossing boundaries will eventually be realized and once the trust is broken, so is the relationship.

If you feel you must confess at some point, you need to profess the lesson learned and certainly offer your sincere apology.
 
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gothustartus is offline gothustartus Post #8  August 6,2009, 4:31am
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tweet37 wrote :
Just put what you now know in your pocket and work on the things that you say will strengthen the relationship. And don't do anything like that again. Repeatedly crossing boundaries will eventually be realized and once the trust is broken, so is the relationship.
Yes there is an argument that he should leave well enough alone and just never do that again, but pretending it didn't happen doesn't solve the problem.
It looks to me like he wants to confess and probably will at some point, i know if i were her then the longer i was allowed to be a sucker the more it would hurt and the less chance of getting past it still together.
 
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IcecreamMoon is offline IcecreamMoon Post #9  August 6,2009, 4:36am
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tweet37 wrote :
If you feel you must confess at some point, you need to profess the lesson learned and certainly offer your sincere apology.
There is an IF about it???
Not only did he invade her privacy, he actually made decisions based on the information he should have never been privvy to, while she was lead to believe that his actions were based on his own merit. That's another level of trust betrayed!

And let me tell you something about journals - sometimes we write down our fears in there, just to let them out (I don't keep journals, but I often write a draft of an email or a letter, and never send it, just to vent). It's one of the ways of dealing with our private fears, and a very productive way at that. It does NOT mean that was the only thing she felt or thought about the situation - maybe she just realised that that part was a problem for her, so she decided to deal with it in a mature grown-up kind of way, not like a guilty child who needs to sneak around and spy on others simply because he knows that his own actions have not been above board.

When our own consience is not clear, we often project that guilt on to others and expect that everyone is just as guilty and worthy of suspicion as we are!

IF she wanted to let him know her thoughts, in full and not just parts of her complicated thought process (not dependent on estrogen for survival), she would have told him. And if he ever wants to know what anyone is thinking or feeling, then he should simply ask. Unbelievable, huh!

He acted like a coward. And he continues to do so every second of the day while holding on to his lie and leading her to believe that he's done nothing wrong. Only now he is a total coward and a complete jerk!

His initial urge to read the journal could be forgiven. Quite a few of us would probably look at something we are not supposed to see, if it's right in front of our eyes. But IF his subsequent behavior is not a 100% fully conscious betrayal of trust, then I don't know what is!!!!!!!

She will eventually find out about his snooping and about his subsequent lies. And if he does not have the guts to admit his terrible fault, sincerely apologise for what he's done, and tell her how he is going to redeem himself, then he really is a spineless, cowardly jerk!

He then should allow her time to process this wonderfully exciting piece of information at her own pace, so that she can decide if she wants to have anything more to do with him. If she is gracious enough to forgive him and give him another chance, then the relationship should then proceed on her terms and by her rules, until such time that her trust is rebuilt. If that's too much for him to handle, then he should let this poor woman go, without humiliating her and demeaning her any further. And try really hard not to find the next victim of his brand of psychological abuse, unless and until he's resolved his own issues of fear and resulting abhorrent behavior.

As it stands right now, I'm surprised he can sleep at night or look at himself in the mirror without flinching...
 
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IcecreamMoon is offline IcecreamMoon Post #10  August 6,2009, 4:50am
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Harvey7 wrote :
First things first, You should find a debt counselor that offers his or her services for a reasonable fee amount, everyone has bills to pay. They can negotiate a much better deal for you then you can for yourself and work up a budget that will let you live and include gas money to raise your standard of living.

Why are you so willing to change yourself for a girlfriend, who you do not know if you have a future with or not? That should be the 2nd. item on your list, but don't rush it. If you guys do want a future together you definitely will need couples counseling. I would never mention to her at anytime in the present or the future that you read her journal! How would you feel if she went through your cell phone and read your text msg's and then your wallet? See if you guys can structure a plan for the future and if there is a future and if not just be friends but move on.

How are you supposed help her to get a mortgage, when you are having a problem getting gas money for your car to go see her?
What you did do was give us some insight on your emotional state and of your relationship, but you omitted a lot of factual information.
How old is she? Does she have a job? How does she plan to repay the loan? Does she want to have a future with you? Does she want a real estate partner or a partner in life? Your perceptions are not those of an engineer, rather an immature and unsavory teen who lacks exposure. That is why I suggested some counseling.

While you have training and an academic background your decision making process could use some polishing. Your trying to make an integrity or moral issue out of a commonsense issue, move on get past it.

Harvey7.
Don't you think he should also schedule lunch with her mother, undoubtedly behind his girlfriend's back, and also invite a couple of pornography flying ducks for company?

Just another way to exhibit his arrogance and insult her intelligence. Because, of course, her mother would never tell her daughter. She would assume his side, of course!
Last edited by IcecreamMoon; August 6,2009 at 4:53am. Reason: I can't even spell this crap out!
 
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