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LizziePooh LizziePooh is offline
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littlebluemonkeymind wrote :
I get what you're saying and context does mean a lot...but the only clue we have as to context is that the OP was offended by the statement and said so...and his reponse was basically to tell her that her feelings were invalid. So, first he was thoughtless and then he was dismissive of her concern.
But aren't most men like this? Women are more inclined to apologize when they know someone was bothered - even if it is just to apologize that what they said made them feel that way. It was not what they meant but they are still able to apologize that the other person is hurt even if it was unintended. But men, nah! - they are more inclined to apologize when they have done something wrong - but if it was not wrong, then why apologize?? I have never heard a lot of men apologize for hurting someone's feeling even if unintentional. It just does not happen...that much. I don't think.

And it suc&s, because most issues are misunderstanding. But as for this particular situation, what suc&s is that the guy has made it an issue. By defending it, he places her at the defensive and how do you defend jealously - insecurity, even when it is totally rational - it comes off a little off because really, objectively speaking, we are all attracted to some people? It just is a no win-win when you are forced in the corner. In situations like this, sometimes men can drive you crazy because you get nowhere and somehow you can come off I little more nuttier to him than you should - but it is not your fault! He is the dense one and just can't see it your way! Can't we just all be civilized and realize there are just some thoughts we should not share??

(Ooops, did I just totally project? Sorry!!!)
- July 31st, 2009, 10:08 pm
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bigfincat bigfincat is offline
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littlebluemonkeymind wrote :
I get what you're saying and context does mean a lot...but the only clue we have as to context is that the OP was offended by the statement and said so...and his reponse was basically to tell her that her feelings were invalid. So, first he was thoughtless and then he was dismissive of her concern. Does that really sound like someone you'd want to be involved with without having further discussion that has a more productive outcome than he gets to do whatever he wants and she just accepts it? Would the reverse hold true?

So, what is the reasonable solution to a situation like this, in your mind (and I'm asking because I generally find your posts to be reasonable and well balanced, although we don't always agree)? If you're with someone and you say or do something that upsets them, how would they broach the topic in a way that would have a productive outcome? I know in my case (and it has a lot to do with just where I am in my life) I'm just a likely to walk away as to try and mediate someone's behavior and I'm certainly not likely to put up with something I find offensive or uncomfortable. I would treat it as a mismatch if I had to have that conversation more than a few times (and if the outcome was as in this case).

And no, I wouldn't play that game.
My initial reaction to the thread was that it was a dumb thing to say. I still agree with that.

I tried to place myself in a situation such as that. That is where the 19 year old came in. Any woman that I was with would likely laugh at me if I suggested that there was any possibility of anything.

I know that the occassional woman dates much older than she but in this particular case I know that any comment that I might make would be a joke or just nonsense because I know how far-fetched that would be on both of our ends.

I guess that it could also be equated to a comment that a woman that I would be dating may make at the gym about a guy that may be in better shape than me. Am I going to worry that she might leave me for a guy that is in better shape? I wouldn't.

The OP does have the most information here so her reaction is likely the most reliable one... but women (people) do sometimes act irrationally so that cannot be assumed either.

I do not like the personality that refuses to apoligize for anything & if that is the case that the OP's guy is consistent in that regard then that is an entirely different question... I would find that situation to be unlivable, personally.
- July 31st, 2009, 10:17 pm
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bigfincat bigfincat is offline
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LizziePooh wrote :
But aren't most men like this? Women are more inclined to apologize when they know someone was bothered - even if it is just to apologize that what they said made them feel that way. It was not what they meant but they are still able to apologize that the other person is hurt even if it was unintended. But men, nah! - they are more inclined to apologize when they have done something wrong - but if it was not wrong, then why apologize?? I have never heard a lot of men apologize for hurting someone's feeling even if unintentional. It just does not happen...that much. I don't think.

And it suc&s, because most issues are misunderstanding. But as for this particular situation, what suc&s is that the guy has made it an issue. By defending it, he places her at the defensive and how do you defend jealously - insecurity, even when it is totally rational - it comes off a little off because really, objectively speaking, we are all attracted to some people? It just is a no win-win when you are forced in the corner. In situations like this, sometimes men can drive you crazy because you get nowhere and somehow you can come off I little more nuttier to him than you should - but it is not your fault! He is the dense one and just can't see it your way! Can't we just all be civilized and realize there are just some thoughts we should not share??

(Ooops, did I just totally project? Sorry!!!)
I think that the inabilty to apoligize is both selfish & lazy.
- July 31st, 2009, 10:20 pm
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This guy has boundary issues all over the place! Professionally, agewise, and what not to say to a woman you are dating. He is rude and immature, and I think it was great that you said something on the spot. His response says a whole lot about him. Instead of saying, "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings." He became accusatory of you. That speaks loudly to me that he won't be sensitive to your feelings if you were to go deeper with him.

I would cut the bait and move on to a more sensitive and intuitive man.
- July 31st, 2009, 10:24 pm
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itsbits wrote :
I could really use some help in sifting through a situation with my guy. We'd been friends for 2 years in a business setting and started dating a couple months after I changed jobs. While we were out on a romantic date, my guy is telling me about another of his co-worker female friends. He says to me "if I were 20 years younger, I'd be in love with her and her with me". After I calmly told him that was inappropriate to say to someone who's emotionally involved with him, he began to chastise me and defend her. Needless to say the entire evening was shot and we've been on the outs ever since.
My guy is 52 (I'm 45) and this other female is 30. My guy has a history of dating younger women: this is not jelousy as my guy even tells me I look 30-35, so there aren't self esteem issues on my end here. He's upset that "I took it the way I did", but even after discussing the reverse situation on him..he wouldn't appologize and took a very strong "just get over it" stance. My gut reaction is to take the realtionhip back to friends cause the way he even handled the aftermath was sad. Would it really be ok for a guy to tell a woman this and think it's really no big deal (and if he's into another gal, that's ok, but don't get me involved if he is).
What he did said was disrespectful to you and his response was even more so if he considers himself dating you. I think a flag just went up. I would suggest not ignoring it.
- July 31st, 2009, 10:26 pm
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I agree with other posters I'd dump him. I guess I would want to know what kind of talks you've had over the past two years. If it's of this type of nature maybe he just hasn't transferred his social boundaries to a more proper realtionship of respect with someone he is interested in.However the older I get ( I'm about your age ) I am getting increasingly discouraged with how men speak about women in general anyway.( and vice versa ) At his age maybe there is some real character problems that he is atlking like this. I would be wary. I think he has alot of work to do.

There is a good book called " Avoiding Mr. Wrong" I might recommend it actually talks alot about this stuff.
- July 31st, 2009, 10:36 pm
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LizziePooh LizziePooh is offline
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bigfincat wrote :
I think that the inabilty to apoligize is both selfish & lazy.
But justified when you aren't wrong?? Yes? No?
- July 31st, 2009, 10:51 pm
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LizziePooh wrote :
But justified when you aren't wrong?? Yes? No?
Yes.

If it is the rarest thing for someone to apoligize then they are not recognizing the mistakes or misjudgements that they are making...likely because of lack of effort or care to even notice. Complete arrogance.
- July 31st, 2009, 11:33 pm
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LizziePooh LizziePooh is offline
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bigfincat wrote :
Yes.

If it is the rarest thing for someone to apoligize then they are not recognizing the mistakes or misjudgements that they are making...likely because of lack of effort or care to even notice. Complete arrogance.
How often do you apologize when you did not intend harm? Do you only do that when a woman is involved, or to clarify - a woman you like involved? Or maybe with men you just don't find yourself feeling like you should apologize when you have done nothing wrong?


Just wondering...
- August 1st, 2009, 12:08 am
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IcecreamMoon IcecreamMoon is offline
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LizziePooh wrote :
How often do you apologize when you did not intend harm?
Personal perspective here -
It is irrelevant whether harm is intended or not. What's relevant in this case is that a person caused it with their behaviour.

In fact, I find that most harm is caused without (direct) intention. But that does not reduce the amount of pain and suffering incurred by the other person. In fact, it only serves to add to it when the other person realizes that they weren't even worthy of consideration prior to the behavior taking place.

So, my advice would be to apologize even more sincerely (rather than more often or more demonstratively) when harming without intent.
- August 1st, 2009, 01:44 am
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