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brneyedangel wrote :
I guess I just don't put that much conscious thought into the whole thing--if things are right, it happens, and if they aren't, they don't. I don't sit down and consciously say, "I am going to choose to love this man." I either get to know him, date him, and fall in love with him, or I don't. For me, it's definitely a feeling--an emotion.
I will agree with you 100%.
- October 18th, 2009, 09:15 pm
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brneyedangel wrote :
I guess I just don't put that much conscious thought into the whole thing--if things are right, it happens, and if they aren't, they don't. I don't sit down and consciously say, "I am going to choose to love this man." I either get to know him, date him, and fall in love with him, or I don't. For me, it's definitely a feeling--an emotion.
I think you misunderstood some of what I was trying to say.

I don't think we necessarily choose who we fall for, but we do choose whether we love them - and in what way. Are you able to consider his well-being or is the only thing that matters your own self-gratification in the moment? If it's the latter, are you really 'loving' him? Would you pursue a relationship with them even if they are married?

What happens in your scenario after the euphoria of falling in love' wears off? Do you just move on to the next guy because the feeling has changed? How do you treat the person you're with on a day to day basis? Is it ok to be hurtful and abusive and then to justify it by saying 'but I love you' because you 'feel' love for him?

Like I said earlier - often it's that initial feeling of love that motivates us to love actively. We're probably going to invest more energy in doing things for someone we feel love for than for someone we barely know.

But that feeling is not the totality of love. It's only one part of it. And when it comes to sustaining a healthy long-term relationship, love without action isn't going to get you very far.

The thing is, that even if you lose the feeling of love for a while, loving and being loved actively can usually bring that back, barring any really serious issues.
- October 18th, 2009, 09:38 pm
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peg099 wrote :
I think you misunderstood some of what I was trying to say.

I don't think we necessarily choose who we fall for, but we do choose whether we love them - and in what way. Are you able to consider his well-being or is the only thing that matters your own self-gratification in the moment? If it's the latter, are you really 'loving' him? Would you pursue a relationship with them even if they are married?

What happens in your scenario after the euphoria of falling in love' wears off? Do you just move on to the next guy because the feeling has changed? How do you treat the person you're with on a day to day basis? Is it ok to be hurtful and abusive and then to justify it by saying 'but I love you' because you 'feel' love for him?

Like I said earlier - often it's that initial feeling of love that motivates us to love actively. We're probably going to invest more energy in doing things for someone we feel love for than for someone we barely know.

But that feeling is not the totality of love. It's only one part of it. And when it comes to sustaining a healthy long-term relationship, love without action isn't going to get you very far.

The thing is, that even if you lose the feeling of love for a while, loving and being loved actively can usually bring that back, barring any really serious issues.
No, I didn't misunderstand anything that you were trying to say, and I don't dump a guy when the rush wears off--I have much more substance than that, and if you knew anything at all about me, you'd realize that. To me, it's much more than consciously choosing to make a decision, which is the crux of what I felt this post was about.

I have had many long term relationships, and I do know that they take a lot of hard work--I'm not exactly a starry eyed idiotic kid here. However, to say that there's no emotion involved in that, at least for me, would be a complete lie. The emotion and feeling of love doesn't just go away. I continue to feel it. I do the things that I do within a relationship because of the emotion--the way I feel about the person--and not because I once had a euphoric feeling for him.

"What happens in your scenario after the euphoria of falling in love' wears off? Do you just move on to the next guy because the feeling has changed? How do you treat the person you're with on a day to day basis? Is it ok to be hurtful and abusive and then to justify it by saying 'but I love you' because you 'feel' love for him?"

I'm not really sure what you were aiming at here, but I don't appreciate the insinuation you've made about me here at all. You don't know me, and to imply that I would just toss a guy aside when the euphoria wears off is not only way off base, it's an inappropriate and rude implication to make. I have never been this way in my life, and I will never be this way. I am a woman of integrity and character, and not some sort of childish little floosie. I am in no way abusive or hurtful to the men I date, and when I am in a relationship, I treat the man I'm with on a day to day basis with the utmost care, respect, and love. Abusing another person is not something that I am capable of doing.

Just because we may not see this in the same way does not mean that you or I are any more correct about this topic. I was responding to the topic as it was written. Your implications about me because I don't see it your way, though, are really out of line, and I would truly hope that you would take some time to entertain another viewpoint rather than just attacking the person who said it and making unfounded assumptions about that person. You'll notice that I never once implied anything negative about you because you don't see this as I do, and I'd appreciate the same in return.
- October 18th, 2009, 10:06 pm
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kat5560 wrote :
i was just reading one of the eh articles.

it quotes that "love is not a feeling,, its a decsision".

what do you all think about that??
I think it is both a feeling and a decision, and I think it generally comes in that order.

You can realize you're in love w a scorpion ... and decide it is better to choose a different relationship.
Last edited by nightling; October 18th, 2009 at 10:28 pm.
- October 18th, 2009, 10:19 pm
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brneyedangel wrote :
No, I didn't misunderstand anything that you were trying to say, and I don't dump a guy when the rush wears off--I have much more substance than that, and if you knew anything at all about me, you'd realize that. To me, it's much more than consciously choosing to make a decision, which is the crux of what I felt this post was about.

I have had many long term relationships, and I do know that they take a lot of hard work--I'm not exactly a starry eyed idiotic kid here. However, to say that there's no emotion involved in that, at least for me, would be a complete lie. The emotion and feeling of love doesn't just go away. I continue to feel it. I do the things that I do within a relationship because of the emotion--the way I feel about the person--and not because I once had a euphoric feeling for him.

"What happens in your scenario after the euphoria of falling in love' wears off? Do you just move on to the next guy because the feeling has changed? How do you treat the person you're with on a day to day basis? Is it ok to be hurtful and abusive and then to justify it by saying 'but I love you' because you 'feel' love for him?"

I'm not really sure what you were aiming at here, but I don't appreciate the insinuation you've made about me here at all. You don't know me, and to imply that I would just toss a guy aside when the euphoria wears off is not only way off base, it's an inappropriate and rude implication to make. I have never been this way in my life, and I will never be this way. I am a woman of integrity and character, and not some sort of childish little floosie. I am in no way abusive or hurtful to the men I date, and when I am in a relationship, I treat the man I'm with on a day to day basis with the utmost care, respect, and love. Abusing another person is not something that I am capable of doing.

Just because we may not see this in the same way does not mean that you or I are any more correct about this topic. I was responding to the topic as it was written. Your implications about me because I don't see it your way, though, are really out of line, and I would truly hope that you would take some time to entertain another viewpoint rather than just attacking the person who said it and making unfounded assumptions about that person. You'll notice that I never once implied anything negative about you because you don't see this as I do, and I'd appreciate the same in return.
Sorry, when I used the word 'you' in those questions, it was meant as a generic you - i.e. they were questions to ponder, and not meant as any sort of personal attack or insinuation med at you. I should have been more clear about that, and I apologize for the confusion that may have caused. Believe me, I have no reason to insult you, and in fact if you knew me better you'd know that I don't act out of malice and generally refrain from personal attacks. I certainly don't attack people who have done me no harm.

Ultimately, I think you and I are saying a lot of the same things - I've said all along that it is both a feeling and a verb/action, which seems to be what you're saying too when you elaborate on your thoughts. I think the main difference is that to me the actions are ultimately the true test of love, whereas you give more weight to the feeling. But we both seem to view both elements as necessary.

But I still get the sense you seem to think I'm saying there's no feeling involved. In fact, I've repeatedly stated that the feeling is in fact part of love - but not its totality. And that - not a conscious choosing to make a decision - is what the crux of my post was about. So yes, you did misunderstand my post.

In fact, I don't tend to think of love as a decision because that makes it sound like an academic or rational exercise devoid of emotion - and I've said so on several occasions, though not all are in this thread. I did specify in this thread though, that I don't see love as a decision or act of will, but rather a verb, an action. To me, that's an important distinction, precisely because I do think that the heart is involved.

In an earlier post someone said that we are physical, emotional, spiritual and intellectual beings, and so love needs to incorporate all those elements. For me, it's a wholistic thing, not a matter of either/or.
- October 19th, 2009, 12:00 am
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peg099 wrote :
Actually, the brain responding before the feeling registers is not a choice
that's right. the time of choice is post that.

wrote :
That unconscious, uninformed reaction is the impulse.
for practical reasons, i wouldn't use "reaction" and "impulse" as interchangeable terms like this. keep them separate, and you have more words for making finer distinctions.

wrote :
I was not aware of the neuroscience, but it helps explain why denying one's feelings is so destructive and leads to problems with addictions and impulse control. If the impulse happens before the feeling registers, then the logical way to 'free us from the terrier-like bite of impulse' would be to reduce not extend the time before feeling registers. Only after it registers can we make a conscious choice. The time prior to registering the feeling would simply be a reaction/impulse.
yes and no. feeling has right of way over rational thought. you do need more information, and you need it for the purpose of informing your feelings. a registered feeling is, if you will, an action chosen if not yet enacted. put another way, to really be in control and choose your course of action is to choose the feeling you will feel when "the dust settles." the goal is to extend the time before the feeling solidifies, to slow yourself down. but you begin this effort - as you mention - by not denying what you feel. it takes time and goes in stages. you work backwards, trying to register the feeling earlier and earlier until you can catch it before it gets going. there's a cusp where you haven't got a feeling, but your body is revving up its hormonal messengers.

wrote :
If old-time religion and much of psychotherapy are focussed on delaying the registering of that feeling, that would explain why they have had such limited success with impulse disorders and things like addiction. Approaches that encourage people to 'feel their feelings' and work through them in a constructive manner tend to be much more productive.
mm. i think, rather, their failure has been in the overstatement of what rational thought can do and the understatement of the biological, physical aspect. the "working through in a constructive manner" has relied too heavily on intellectualizing. that "old-time religion," at least, i'd say, settled too easily for curbing action, post feeling. the game is already lost by then.

there's another aspect: we creatures are operated by habit. we feel and act according to habit. you have to build up habits beforehand.
Last edited by lil_lamb; October 19th, 2009 at 02:12 am.
- October 19th, 2009, 02:01 am
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peg099 wrote :
I think you misunderstood some of what I was trying to say.

I don't think we necessarily choose who we fall for, but we do choose whether we love them - and in what way. Are you able to consider his well-being or is the only thing that matters your own self-gratification in the moment? If it's the latter, are you really 'loving' him? Would you pursue a relationship with them even if they are married?

What happens in your scenario after the euphoria of falling in love' wears off? Do you just move on to the next guy because the feeling has changed? How do you treat the person you're with on a day to day basis? Is it ok to be hurtful and abusive and then to justify it by saying 'but I love you' because you 'feel' love for him?

Like I said earlier - often it's that initial feeling of love that motivates us to love actively. We're probably going to invest more energy in doing things for someone we feel love for than for someone we barely know.

But that feeling is not the totality of love. It's only one part of it. And when it comes to sustaining a healthy long-term relationship, love without action isn't going to get you very far.

The thing is, that even if you lose the feeling of love for a while, loving and being loved actively can usually bring that back, barring any really serious issues.
well said
- October 19th, 2009, 02:28 am
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jayjay wrote :
Well....at least you still remembered it when you sobered up.
You are so cheeky Jayjay.


Who says I sobered up?
- October 19th, 2009, 05:03 pm
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WYskywatcher wrote :
LOVE is a VERB!
......and an abstract noun. (I'm a teacher ) he he he
- October 19th, 2009, 05:06 pm
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brneyedangel wrote :
I guess I just don't put that much conscious thought into the whole thing--if things are right, it happens, and if they aren't, they don't. I don't sit down and consciously say, "I am going to choose to love this man." I either get to know him, date him, and fall in love with him, or I don't. For me, it's definitely a feeling--an emotion.

Me too. We were kids in the 70s. Enough said.
- October 19th, 2009, 05:08 pm
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