scarlet13 is offline scarlet13 Post #91  October 19,2009, 4:25pm
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Its more than a feeling, when I hear that old song they used to play
I begin dreaming
till I see marianne walk away
I see my marianne walkin away
 
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zurbrj1 is offline zurbrj1 Post #92  October 19,2009, 4:45pm
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kat5560 wrote :
i was just reading one of the eh articles.

it quotes that "love is not a feeling,, its a decision".

what do you all think about that??
This is very interesting.......and here is my take.

Love and feelings are two separate dimensions with decision encompassing both love and feelings. In other words, love and feelings can be components of each other with love and feelings being based on our decisions!

I hope I made sense, if not, I may have muddied the water!
 
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gothustartus is offline gothustartus Post #93  October 20,2009, 2:09pm
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I can only analyze love when i'm not in it.
 
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saltndlight is offline saltndlight Post #94  October 20,2009, 2:36pm
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I agree with Icecreammoon, i need to feel atracted and connected with my companion,i need to feel passionate about him and "those butterflies on stomach", the romance... but Love is also a commitment (decision) to not betray, to not hurt, to remain faithful,so i do believe it is both: feeling and decision.
 
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trixie1868 is offline trixie1868 Post #95  October 20,2009, 3:15pm

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gothustartus wrote :
I can only analyze love when i'm not in it.
The most true thing on this thread.
 
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jacsmit is offline jacsmit Post #96  October 20,2009, 3:35pm
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peg099 wrote :
Approaches that encourage people to 'feel their feelings' and work through them in a constructive manner tend to be much more productive.
+1. But I also agree with some of what lil_lamb said. I've been going through a lot of that lately - because I was raised to deny/suppress my feelings to get things done, achieve results, etc. The feelings were always still there - but would manifest in other ways. I've been working on identifying them sooner and making effective/beneficial choices in those situations. You can't control your feelings - but you can choose how you react. Over time, with thought/effort/different-habits/etc - you can change/shift them. But thinking something (positive, for example) a lot of times - without addressing the root cause/issue somehow/way - won't accomplish much in controlling whatever emotion results from a certain event/stimulus.

Here's another wrinkle on this - but on the family side. I'd recently come to terms with the possibility that my dad didn't really love me - or at least not in the way I need/feel love and/or of me as a unique/independent person. It seemed to me that he doesn't listen, understand, or empathize - it's more about what he thinks is right, what I should do, etc. However, there was some kindness/caring there - I was never abused/mistreated/etc. I thought I loved him - but lately I'm not so sure. What I do know is that I don't *feel* love from him, based on his words *and* his actions.

My mom said that he does love me - very much. And that it's just his way of showing it, and that it will never change. But that I should know that he does, and accept that. I'm having a hard time with that.

This can also be applied in romantic relationships - and in fact, I think I've had one very similar to the above - she said she loved me very much, but often her words and actions didn't match. But in other ways she did kind/caring things.

So if we were to say someone is "wrong" here - is it them or me? But avoiding that - which may be a good idea - what would one suggest in these types of cases?

ps. It's not that I don't or can't love my dad - because I'm pretty sure I do - it's just the knowing/feeling that he loves me, when both intellectual and emotionally I'm not getting it (I could make a logical case for it however - by focusing on things that support that side). I'm sure he does - in his own way. But I need to accept the reality of the situation too (ie. he doesn't [usually] help/support me in the way I would need it). Am I being too harsh, selfish, closed-minded?
Last edited by jacsmit; October 20,2009 at 3:56pm. Reason: Added more
 
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librarybabe is offline librarybabe Post #97  October 20,2009, 4:19pm
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jacsmit wrote :

So if we were to say someone is "wrong" here - is it them or me? But avoiding that - which may be a good idea - what would one suggest in these types of cases?

ps. It's not that I don't or can't love my dad - because I'm pretty sure I do - it's just the knowing/feeling that he loves me, when both intellectual and emotionally I'm not getting it (I could make a logical case for it however - by focusing on things that support that side). I'm sure he does - in his own way. But I need to accept the reality of the situation too (ie. he doesn't [usually] help/support me in the way I would need it). Am I being too harsh, selfish, closed-minded?
I don't think it is wrong or selfish to want to be loved in the way that we need to receive it. Knowing intellectually that someone loves you, doesn't always help to make that love real.

I do think it is a weakness to know how someone needs to be loved and refuse to express it that way because it is out of our comfort level. I know, because when I don't do it, I know that I am being cowardly or making excuses.

But, it can take time and a lot of effort to change how we are willing to express love. My grandmother single-handedly changed the way her entire extended family expressed love. In her German family they were loving and kind, but never said "I love you." But she always told everyone she loved them. It took years of babysitting some of her nieces and nephews before they felt comfortable to say the same. Maybe expressing your love in the way you want to experience it from your dad could help, even though it may be received awkwardly. But if this is not the way he likes to receive love, then showing your love in the way he likes may help as well may help.

But it is no easy task when you aren't "feeling" love for him either. But I think that is when that "whole love" I was talking about comes into play: choosing as rational being to demonstrate love as an action. Not expressing love just when we feel like it, but choosing to act in love in hopes of someday feeling love that we as emotional and spiritual beings need.
 
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yoga_gal is offline yoga_gal Post #98  October 20,2009, 7:16pm
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gothustartus wrote :
I can only analyze love when i'm not in it.
It does make it easier! LOL
 
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peg099 is offline peg099 Post #99  October 20,2009, 7:17pm
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jacsmit wrote :
+1. But I also agree with some of what lil_lamb said. I've been going through a lot of that lately - because I was raised to deny/suppress my feelings to get things done, achieve results, etc. The feelings were always still there - but would manifest in other ways. I've been working on identifying them sooner and making effective/beneficial choices in those situations. You can't control your feelings - but you can choose how you react. Over time, with thought/effort/different-habits/etc - you can change/shift them. But thinking something (positive, for example) a lot of times - without addressing the root cause/issue somehow/way - won't accomplish much in controlling whatever emotion results from a certain event/stimulus.
Exactly. I too was raised to suppress and deny feelings. My first memory was at the age of two - my parents had taken a toy away from me because my baby sister wanted it, and I wasn't supposed to feel upset - I was supposed to 'know better'. That type of message was constant through my childhood, and I became quite the expert at denying/suppressing my feelings and living in my head.

That suppression of feelings caused all kinds of problems for me (including remaining in very destructive relationships and situations) and I got to a point where I knew I needed to 'fix' those 'symptoms'. I was so out of touch with my feelings that it sometimes took days to identify them. Over time, I worked backwards and started to identify them earlier and earlier At first, I had to work backwards from visible evidence of feelings; I would have to look at what I was doing or examine thought until eventually could actually 'feel' them. Now people often remark (with admiration) at how in touch with my feelings and intuition I am.

The paradoxical beauty of this is that the better I got at feeling and identifying those feelings, the less likely I became to act out those feelings. When I allow myself the feeling and identify it, I can then make a choice about my behavior. Like you said - those unacknowledged feelings don't go away, they are still there, and often visible to others. Like lil_lamb said - our brain reacts before we register the feeling. So by learning to register that feeling more consciously, I became more able to make conscious constructive decisions about my behavior. Instead of only knowingI was angry after I'd slammed a door or had a meltdown, I can now register anger, and decide on the best course of action. In addition to learning to 'process' those feelings as they arise, I was also able to work through a whole whack of emotions I had suppressed for years, and clear out the back log of unregistered emotions.

The proof is in the pudding: I have had several members of my family (mother and siblings) comment on how much calmer I am, and how in the past they often felt they had to walk on eggshells but now I seem to not be so 'sensitive'. The irony is that I'm in fact more sensitive, but because I allow myself to register and feel the emotion, I can make choices about my behavior instead of having those feelings hit overload.

I agree with you 100% that we can't control our feelings, but we can choose how we respond. But in order to have that choice, we need to be able to feel and register those feelings. Feelings are information. They don't give us the total picture - we need to bring in our intellect and rational knowledge as well - but they are an important part of the picture, and trying to 'suppress' them means you're making 'decisions' based on incomplete information.

wrote :
Here's another wrinkle on this - but on the family side. I'd recently come to terms with the possibility that my dad didn't really love me - or at least not in the way I need/feel love and/or of me as a unique/independent person. It seemed to me that he doesn't listen, understand, or empathize - it's more about what he thinks is right, what I should do, etc. However, there was some kindness/caring there - I was never abused/mistreated/etc. I thought I loved him - but lately I'm not so sure. What I do know is that I don't *feel* love from him, based on his words *and* his actions.

My mom said that he does love me - very much. And that it's just his way of showing it, and that it will never change. But that I should know that he does, and accept that. I'm having a hard time with that.

This can also be applied in romantic relationships - and in fact, I think I've had one very similar to the above - she said she loved me very much, but often her words and actions didn't match. But in other ways she did kind/caring things.
I think there's a couple of different things that might be going on in these situations.

1) Yes, people do have different ways of showing love, and sometimes we have to accept that the way one person shows love may not be the way we would prefer to have it shown. Sometimes there can be some movement - some compromising in the sense that the person makes more of an effort to do things that are meaningful to us, but sometimes we just need to accept that they simply show it differently.

2) In my experience, a great many people have very limited capacity for love - at least in the way I would define love (and I know you and I have fairly similar definitions of that). They may 'feel' love, but they are incapable of acting in loving ways with any sort of consistency. I think that when you truly love someone, you have to be able to put their well-being ahead of your own self-gratification. Many people simply are not capable of doing that - usually because of some pain in their own lives that's holding them back. I have found that my own capacity for love has increased dramatically as I have grown emotionally and spiritually. The healthier I am emotionally and spiritually, the easier it is to be genuinely giving. When I was less healthy, I was more focussed on my own needs and wants - more self-centered. So part of what's probably happening is that you are dealing with people who have limited emotional and spiritual health, and therefore are not capable of giving as much as they ideally would.

wrote :
So if we were to say someone is "wrong" here - is it them or me? But avoiding that - which may be a good idea - what would one suggest in these types of cases?

ps. It's not that I don't or can't love my dad - because I'm pretty sure I do - it's just the knowing/feeling that he loves me, when both intellectual and emotionally I'm not getting it (I could make a logical case for it however - by focusing on things that support that side). I'm sure he does - in his own way. But I need to accept the reality of the situation too (ie. he doesn't [usually] help/support me in the way I would need it). Am I being too harsh, selfish, closed-minded?
It's not necessarily a case of who's right and wrong, but more of what you can do to come to a place that feels ok for you.

In the case of your dad, you may simply need to accept that his way of showing love is either different or just limited, and that he's doing the best he can. That's essentially where I came to with my parents (though in my case there had been a certain amount of abuse as well.) But ultimately I realized that they had done the best they knew how with what they had, and I don't hold any resentments. The things they weren't/aren't able to give I have learned to get from other sources.

In the case of romantic relationships, I think we have more control - not over the other person, but in whether we choose to remain with that person. (You can't go out and replace your dad because he doesn't have the qualities you look for in a father). With a romantic partner - if you feel that the person is not showing love in the way you need, then you have to decide what you, personally, can accept. If you're not getting what you need, you can either negotiate with your partner to come to a mutually acceptable solution, or you can move on.
 
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wednesdaygirl is offline wednesdaygirl Post #100  October 21,2009, 2:22pm
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Ok. A few years back I read a book with a similar title, "Love is Not a Feeling" It was written from a Christian perspective. However, I'm sure many non-believers also read and enjoyed it.

I must sit on the fence with this one, so to speak. Although I do agree that love is not 100% a feeling....I also do not think it is 100% choice as the author tried to persuade the reader.

For example, if a woman meets a man she likes...she could get "butterflies" and FEEL an initial attraction for him. Over time this attraction with fond experiences...could lead to love. But, when chemistry may fade a bit....love becomes a choice (i.e., work on the marriage when there are issues and so on).

When all is said and done, it seems to be a good mix of the two. Feeling and choice.
I hope to find that feeling again, and choose to stick with it. :-)
 
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