What's a guy to do? looking for advice . . . .


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samcave is offline samcave Post #1  March 20,2009, 4:19pm
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I'm looking for some other people's thoughts -- people who don't know me and therefore have some degree of objectivity -- on what I can do to improve my outlook. I'm a 32-year-old man whose divorce was final about 15 months ago. That relationship consumed my entire 20s, and ended when my ex fell in love with a good friend of mine who was also married, ending both marriages. I have been able to maitain civility with both my ex and the friend (which may be symptomatic of the problem I have) but it really beat my self esteem to an all-time low level. Things then got worse . . . Ihad no idea what I was doing and got emotionally tied up with two women in a row that could have been described to a "T" in a book called "Exactly What He Doesn't Need Right Now . . . " The second of these told me she loved me on a Friday (way too quickly) and then broke up with me two days later because I was not aggressive or attractive enough for her (paraphrasing here). I wasn't ready for the first of these confessions and damn sure wasn't ready for the second.


I have long-standing issues with self-worth . . . I was never "good enough" as a child . . . and these experiences have shot me down to an extent that I'm not sure I will recover. Objectively, I can see I have a lot going for me: I'm an attorney, I've reached a career pinnacle that most people seek to retire from, I have a group of absolutely wonderful friends who love me far more than I could reasonably imagine, I live in a great place, I'mvery passionate about what I enjoy,and Ihave no singnificat health, family, or financial concerns. And yet I cannot imagine someone finding me worthy of being her boyfriend.


A lot of this centers around feeling unattractive. I've done everything I know how to in this regard . .. changed my diet, exercising, losing weight . . . but none of it helps. I'm not an obese person (not sure if this gives any perspective but my waist is somehwere between 36 and 38 in pants) but I have a horrible body image. No matter what I do, I'm going to be stocky . . . that's just my frame. I don't like the way I look in anything, and if I see myself in a mirror, I become horribly self conscious.And although my friends tell me otherwise, I cannot shake the feeling that I am just flat-out ugly.


As a result, I have NO confidence in myself as far as attractiveness goes, and I have been unable to start dating again. In almost all other aspects of my life, however, I am pretty confident. I go out with friends all the time, and I am certainly not shy or soft-spoken. But I samply cannot conceive of the idea that I woman would fine me remotely attractive, so I automatically assume that any woman I find attractive would want nothing to do with me. I would never approach a woman I didn't know for this reason. I'm also self-consciously concerned with my female friends to make sure they know I would not have the audacity to hit on them or presume they might find me attractive.


I fully recognize this belief is self-sustaining because (so I'm told) confidence is the most important key toattractiveness for women. So I'm sure even if a woman did find me attractive, she would be able to tell how poorly I perceive myself, and be put off by that. It may help me if a woman approached me, but that's never happened, and I doubt it will given my lack of confidece there. It truly is a self-fufilling prophecy.


I'm not ashamed to ask for help, and I have sought it out whenever possible. I've been seeing a counselor ever since I found out my marriage was going to end. I know the reasons I feel the way I do, and they have to do with family issues, what happened during my marriage, etc. But for the life of me, I can't seem to fix it. I've changed what I think I'm capable of changing, but unless I magically find the ability to change bodies, I think I'm always going to find myself repulsive.


So, if anyone has any thoughts on this or what I can do to change it, or had any positive experiences changing something similar for themselves, I'd love to hear about it. Thanks in advance.
 
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Stargate is offline Stargate Post #2  March 20,2009, 5:11pm
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samcave, wrote :

I'm looking for some other people's thoughts -- people who don't know me and therefore have some degree of objectivity -- on what I can do to improve my outlook. I'm a 32-year-old man whose divorce was final about 15 months ago. That relationship consumed my entire 20s, and ended when my ex fell in love with a good friend of mine who was also married, ending both marriages. I have been able to maitain civility with both my ex and the friend (which may be symptomatic of the problem I have) but it really beat my self esteem to an all-time low level. Things then got worse . . . Ihad no idea what I was doing and got emotionally tied up with two women in a row that could have been described to a "T" in a book called "Exactly What He Doesn't Need Right Now . . . " The second of these told me she loved me on a Friday (way too quickly) and then broke up with me two days later because I was not aggressive or attractive enough for her (paraphrasing here). I wasn't ready for the first of these confessions and damn sure wasn't ready for the second.


I have long-standing issues with self-worth . . . I was never "good enough" as a child . . . and these experiences have shot me down to an extent that I'm not sure I will recover. Objectively, I can see I have a lot going for me: I'm an attorney, I've reached a career pinnacle that most people seek to retire from, I have a group of absolutely wonderful friends who love me far more than I could reasonably imagine, I live in a great place, I'mvery passionate about what I enjoy,and Ihave no singnificat health, family, or financial concerns. And yet I cannot imagine someone finding me worthy of being her boyfriend.


A lot of this centers around feeling unattractive. I've done everything I know how to in this regard . .. changed my diet, exercising, losing weight . . . but none of it helps. I'm not an obese person (not sure if this gives any perspective but my waist is somehwere between 36 and 38 in pants) but I have a horrible body image. No matter what I do, I'm going to be stocky . . . that's just my frame. I don't like the way I look in anything, and if I see myself in a mirror, I become horribly self conscious.And although my friends tell me otherwise, I cannot shake the feeling that I am just flat-out ugly.


As a result, I have NO confidence in myself as far as attractiveness goes, and I have been unable to start dating again. In almost all other aspects of my life, however, I am pretty confident. I go out with friends all the time, and I am certainly not shy or soft-spoken. But I samply cannot conceive of the idea that I woman would fine me remotely attractive, so I automatically assume that any woman I find attractive would want nothing to do with me. I would never approach a woman I didn't know for this reason. I'm also self-consciously concerned with my female friends to make sure they know I would not have the audacity to hit on them or presume they might find me attractive.


I fully recognize this belief is self-sustaining because (so I'm told) confidence is the most important key toattractiveness for women. So I'm sure even if a woman did find me attractive, she would be able to tell how poorly I perceive myself, and be put off by that. It may help me if a woman approached me, but that's never happened, and I doubt it will given my lack of confidece there. It truly is a self-fufilling prophecy.


I'm not ashamed to ask for help, and I have sought it out whenever possible. I've been seeing a counselor ever since I found out my marriage was going to end. I know the reasons I feel the way I do, and they have to do with family issues, what happened during my marriage, etc. But for the life of me, I can't seem to fix it. I've changed what I think I'm capable of changing, but unless I magically find the ability to change bodies, I think I'm always going to find myself repulsive.


So, if anyone has any thoughts on this or what I can do to change it, or had any positive experiences changing something similar for themselves, I'd love to hear about it. Thanks in advance.
You aren't going anywhere, you aren't doing anything until you change one thing.


Love you.


How can anyone else if you don't?


15 monthskinda defines "the past", leave it there...ya can't change it.


I have a box of capital L's here. If you want to cry about what others think of you I'll put one on your forehead.


Cuz you can't change that either.


Everything you need to do you can do.


Disregard without, look within.


You'll find that you are beating yourself up so much simply because others did and you adapted.


You'll find you are worrying too much about stuff that should really just get flushed.


"Never "good enough" as a child"" . That's rediculous! Any parent who would dump that on their own offspring only judge themselves.


The child is a product of it's genetics, and they can't be changed. So dismiss that too.


BUT, as an adult it isn't your genetics that make you who you are... it is your choices.


Choose to love, and it starts within.
 
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jordan614 is offline jordan614 Post #3  March 20,2009, 5:26pm
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Obviously sam, someone who's a professional at dealing with such issues is far more qualified than someone on this board (unless there happens to be a professional on these boards), but I'll offer some advice from my own standpoint.


Some 11 years ago, my wife left me as well. The jury will always be out on whether I was cheated on, but I like to say that even the O.J. Simpson jury would have convicted her on the circumstantial evidence. Anyway, it is definitely a blow to the self-esteem, though I was lucky to have kids to focus on (who stayed with me), so that helped turn attention away from myself. Nonetheless, I was never the most confident guy either, and once I did start dating, it wasn't an easy proposition. Physically, I have no weight issues, as I'm 6' tall and weigh around 170, but I have other physical traits I was always self-conscious of (i.e. an Italian nose), so I looked in the mirror with horror at times as well. But growing up, my friends and I would mock each other mercilessly about any flaw, so I learned to be rather self-effacing about my "imperfections"early on.I suggest you do the same. Look around man, most people aren't all that attractive, and you are at least doing the best you can with what you were given to work with. That's all you can ask.


You're still pretty fresh out of your relationship, so my suggestion is to give absolutely no thought to dating at this point. Enjoy the social circles you run in, take up some new hobbies or join new groups if you have time (I took some classes through my school district at one time), and get rid of all the mirrors in your house . Once I simply told myself, "dude, you are what you are, and you're not a bad guy andat leastaren't scaring children in broad daylight," I became quite comfortable with myself. I do workout and try to, as I said, do the best I can with what I have towork with, and guess what, once I decided to jut bag dating, I found "her" at work, and she thinks that physically I'm the most perfect specimen to ever walk the face of the earth (and she ain't bad-looking herself).


It's true that if you project a poor self-image, it affects how others see you, so that definitely is a relationship-killer. Once you stop taking yourself too seriously, start reading the newspaper to see what real tragedies are happening in the world, and simply accept that you can only do so much with what nature gave you, you'll feel quite liberated. And on those days when you think you'd give a troll a good run for his money, enjoy the self-pity until you snap out of it. Life is good man, even without a woman (well, it IS better with the right woman though). That's why God gave us internet porn . Sounds like you have a good number of reasons to enjoy life, so suck it up and do it.
 
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hazmat is offline hazmat Post #4  March 20,2009, 5:28pm
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Sam, other than the self image concerns, you seem to have a lot going for you. Having a circle of friends who care about you says you must be a pretty good guy, fun to be around, etc. Good job, no financial worries, introspective, more good things.


You were in a long term relationship and marriage. (no matter how it ended) It's all about getting back on the horse, when you're ready.


The key to self confidence is knowing what's good and strong about yourself, and not worrying about things you can't change. People will like you and find you attractive, or they won't. Change what you can, accept what you can't.


Be yourself, let the Ladies decide if you're worthy to be a boyfriend. Don't put that extra weight on your shoulders.


Good luck.
 
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BikerBeagle is offline BikerBeagle Post #5  March 20,2009, 5:32pm
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The first thing I'd do is cut off contact with your ex and 'good' friend, if you can. You will never get past your divorce if you are constantly reminded by seeing them together.


You got involved with two women in a row ...let me rephrase that ...you got involved with two women in a row.Who caresthat they ended up being "Exactly What He Doesn't Need Right Now"? Welcome to the Dating Game. They obviously found some quality in you, some physical attractiveness, to have gone out with you in thefirst placebecause women don't date men who they perceive as 'ugly' ...sorry, it just does not happen. You are concentrating on why these relationships ended ...when you should be concentrating on why they began.


Divorce and break ups cause a huge hit to the dumpee's self-esteem. If you've been seeing a therapist for 15 months and aren't making any progress in this regard ...it's time to find a new therapist, seriously. And, to be clear, 15 months really isn't that long of time for a marriage that lasted more than a decade. I just think you aren't ready yet. Don't rush back into dating, you are rebounding right now. Give yourself more time.
 
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bravethestorm is offline bravethestorm Post #6  March 20,2009, 5:34pm
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Recognizing that the current outlook you have of yourself is negative to your self-worthand asking for help is a great first step.


It may seem silly but reallywhen you do something well...you need to treat yourself with kind words. Whether you repeat in your head "i did something and did it well" or something similar...focus on your accomplishments not perfection. It really isn't healthy when you tell yourself "i could have done it better, could look better, etc."...so don't do that anymore. Wake up each day and look for the positive...focus on it...reflect verbally, written, or both. Each day you do that...it become easier to see the good things about you.


When you said "you've changed what you feel capable of changing"...I ask you again to look at your attitude as this is one big thing that is in your control. We can't control what happens to us...only our reactions. Focus on this and take it day by day...you'll see progress I promise but it's not an overnight thing. You just need to commit to seeing the value in yourself...not self-worth through others. It's not about having everyone like you...that would be like trying to completely please simon on american idol...impossible.


So please...when you look in the mirror...find something you do value about yourself...and say it to yourself each day. Add to it....give credit where credit is due...be proud of who you are. There is someone out there that will appreciate you...loving you for you but only you can complete loving yourself which will help your confidence shine.
 
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MelinCali is offline MelinCali Post #7  March 20,2009, 5:36pm
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I am not sure if I can offer much help, but one thing that strikes me is that you have been seeing a counsellor for a while and haven't made any progress. Maybe you should think about finding a new therapist if this one isn't working for you?


You are right that self-confidence is a big part of attracting women and you have to work on that yourself--you aren't going to find it on these advice boards. But from how you describe yourself, I think your weight or physical appearanceis an issue for attracting women. Some women (myself included) would find a stocky build to be perfectly attractive. Since you're an attorney, I'll assume that means you intelligent as well, also a very attractive trait to some women (me!).


You have already been married and just had two (failed) relationships with women who must have found you attractive at some point. The reason for the failure of these relationships is not because you are unattractive, so I think you need to separate the emotions tied to these breakups from the idea that a woman would not be interested in getting to know you because you don't measure up. You obviously have a great joband friends and you have been very successful. It's not like you have never had a date and have no friends--you have all kinds of sources for building confidence around you that you need to tap into.


I don't think it is a good idea to hit on your female friends unless you pick up on some signal from one of them and you are willing to chance losing them as a friend.


I would leave you with the question of who are these women that you are trying to attract? Are they so perfect that you can't possible be on the same playing field? Maybe you could try approaching women who are less scary, but might have a whole lot to offer in kindness, intelligence and sense of humor. Maybe if you start to feel comfortable just chatting with all kinds of women (rather than trying to ask them out) you can slowly build your confidence to get to the point of being able to ask out the woman of your dreams.


Okay, pep talk over! Good luck!
 
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MelinCali is offline MelinCali Post #8  March 20,2009, 5:53pm
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BikerBeagle,540450 wrote :

The first thing I'd do is cut off contact with your ex and 'good' friend, if you can. You will never get past your divorce if you are constantly reminded by seeing them together.


You got involved with two women in a row ...let me rephrase that ...you got involved with two women in a row.Who caresthat they ended up being "Exactly What He Doesn't Need Right Now"? Welcome to the Dating Game. They obviously found some quality in you, some physical attractiveness, to have gone out with you in thefirst placebecause women don't date men who they perceive as 'ugly' ...sorry, it just does not happen. You are concentrating on why these relationships ended ...when you should be concentrating on why they began.


Divorce and break ups cause a huge hit to the dumpee's self-esteem. If you've been seeing a therapist for 15 months and aren't making any progress in this regard ...it's time to find a new therapist, seriously. And, to be clear, 15 months really isn't that long of time for a marriage that lasted more than a decade. I just think you aren't ready yet. Don't rush back into dating, you are rebounding right now. Give yourself more time.
Wow, BB, I think I'm starting to sound a little like you--I was typing my post at the same time, butin slo-moseems.
 
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BikerBeagle is offline BikerBeagle Post #9  March 21,2009, 3:09am
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Great Minds Think Alike, Mel. =)
 
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DancingFool is offline DancingFool Post #10  March 21,2009, 5:08am
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Hmmmm.......


1) You may want to consider a new therapist, however in order for him to be able to help you, you must want to be helped. Reading your post, OP, I'm left with the impression that you really don't want help....bear with me here and read on.....


2) We cannot change our genes, we cannot change who our parents are, but we can change pretty much everything else - one thing that is certain about life is that it is constant change. So why not take advantage of that? To say that you have these self image issues because of your parents, are you still 6 years old? They've stopped being responsible for who you are a long long time ago. It's you who hasn't grown and let go. It's like mentally you never flew the coop and went out to explore the world and discover who you are. Is the world really that scary for you? Why?


3)So..... you are stuck and clinging to your past for dear life. It's an excuse, a way of life and a security blanket for you that you are loath to let go of. You yourself state in your post that you are not sure you will recover - recovery is a choice - a conscious and deliberate choice. Ask yourself why? What are you affraid of in the present that you must wrap yourself so hard in your past? Are you addicted to your own drama? If so, how do you break away from that? What can you do differently in your life that will bring in a healthy form of excitement?


4) When you are stuck in your past, you destroy your present and your future - deliberately so.


5) When you look at yourself you CHOOSE to see the negative, you CHOOSE to feel bad or good, you CHOOSE to let what someone said get to you. Do you see where I'm going here? You have all these great things and accomplishments in your life, but you CHOOSE to focus on every little negative nitpicky detail. You and only you put yourself down. Nobody else is doing that for you.


6) So, just like you CHOOSE to focus on your past and to focus on the negative, you can equally CHOOSE to focus on the positive - the problem is that you have to want to - really truly deep down inside want to. So, OP do you really want to? If so, drop your past. You went through law school and you dealt with the lovely Socratic method - it did change the way that your mind works - you know you are capable of change. This time CHOOSE to change the way that you think and see yourself. It's totally doable.


And one more thing....do it for yourself....not for women....
 
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