Will I ever get out of the friend zone?

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dlc872 Post #1 March 13,2009, 10:31pm

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I've written about this relationship before some time ago...but it's still going on and getting more and more involved and really getting to me.

Some 3 or so years ago, I met the woman who is now very close to me. We flirted some back then, I thought she was extremely attractive, way out of my league, but she was receptive. When I eventually got up enough nerve to ask her out she said she was seeing someone, admitted she hadn't told me, and apologized but wanted to be friends.

Well, I kind of let it hang and would stay in touch with her and flirt and that until about a year and a half ago when we began seeing a lot of each other. The relationship has become extremely close and I've developed strong feelings for her...and she acts...usually...like she has them for me.

Up until recently she was still well involved in this weekend relationship, though it was getting clearer and clearer that it wasn't working out. In the past couple of months it seems that it has almost completely ended and I've noticed some positive changes in her relationship with me...and she's been around a lot of weekends and spending time with me too.

So here's where it stands today. She has become a part of my family, almost literally. She takes my teenage daughter two nights a week to help her study and is helping keep track of her school work. Once in a while, especially when she is not in her own night classes, she comes over and cooks us dinner. She calls me at least once a day on average, often more. We exchanged gifts over the holidays. Recently she's gotten a lot more affectionate with me as well...last week she just cuddled up to me on a park bench while we were waiting for a train...i often have my arm around her when we walk together. The other night my new bedroom set was delivered and she and my daughter and I were all kind of cuddling together on my new bed, me giving her foot massages. She surprised me a week or so ago by cleaning the snow off my car and my driveway while I was at work. She is planning to take my daughter for a week to Maine for a girls only vacation (with her mom too). We flirt, we goof around, we have gotten to be very close.

And I have feelings for her. She seems to be someone I could see marrying. My kids love her and she them.

But ... but... but... despite the flirtiness she's defined this as a platonic relationship because of the boyfriend. For quite a while she wouldn't even go to things like my daughter's dance recital because she thought it would upset her boyfriend. Now she doesn't seem to care about that...two weeks ago she bought concert tickets to a great blues guitarist (knowing I play guitar and would love it) and called me to invite me...and my daughter of course...to the show. I took the girls out to dinner and we had a great time together...on a Saturday night (no weekend with the guy). This weekend she's planning to be here to work on schoolwork, make dinner and watch a movie with us. She has indicated to me that she's in the process of ending her relationship with the other guy, but I'm not pushing at all, realizing that she needs time and understanding.

Despite the way we are towards each other, sometimes she pulls away a little. If I ignore her, she will be calling me though ... and if I seem down or distracted, she picks up on it right away. And she's admitted she cares about me a lot....last December we were talking about that one night and she suddenly asked me if I was "waiting for her" as I'd talked about how I regretted not asking her out before she got involved with the other guy. I said ... "probably, though I've been ona few dates". She was a little upset and said that I shouldn't wait for her, sshe didn't know what the future held, etc etc. Then a couple days later she wrote me a note saying "I don't have those kind of feelings now and I don't know if I would if I wasn't with my bf"...

... which was completely contrary to her behavior towards me shortly after that where she seemed to come forward to me a lot as I drew away, hugging me, having me do a (nearly) full body massage for her, etc.

So here we are now...I've been in this relationship with her for a long time and lately it seems to be getting more overtly affectionate and flirty and even a little physical as she appears to be breaking things off (slowly) with the other guy. But it's driving me nuts. I really care for her a lot and would marry her in a heart beat. But I'm afraid to push at all (esp given her note from December)...but when she cuddles with me or the like I'm getting an entirely different message. And, while I know that she has a lot of guy friends, I was kind of weirded out tonight when one of my buddies at the bowling alley I frequent mentioned seeing her there last night with another guy...probably a friend, but she has been a little mysterious about Thursdays too.

Anyhow...I'm stuck. I don't know what to do other than just to continue to treasure the time I spend with her, appreciate how much she is helping my daughter, loving her for the wonderful person she is and trying to help her with her bumps and bruises too, as she has her share. But I'm hurting inside a lot, I'm not seeing any other women at all, I have stopped subscribing to EH or going to the singles parties I was ... I feel like she is practically my girlfriend right now. But it hurts a lot that we aren't quite yet there...and that at any time she's going to pull back and give the "only friends" talk...or ...worst of all...I'll find out that she finally did break clear of the bf and isn't seeing me romantically, but dating others. Or...perhaps it will work out for the best....

Sorry for the long rant...but thoughts / advice / etc is very much appreciated.

69inches Post #2 March 13,2009, 10:55pm

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Wow tough situation to figure out. I see lots of mixed messages from her. Have you asked her recently if she would consider dating you? She sayed you shouldn't wait for her but how long ago was that. Maybe shes waiting for you to be more daring not realizing she sending you mixed messages. Or maybe she just considers you a real good friend and will never feel the same for you as you do for her. I think the key is communicating with her cuz it sounds like its tearing at you. If she still feels you shouldn't wait for her at this point then I'd agree with that and you should look elsewhere. It's not fair to you to be pineing after someone thats not going to return the feelings you have. good luck, hoped I healed rather then hurt.

dlc872 Post #3 March 13,2009, 11:04pm

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69inches,529194 wrote :

I'm pretty much on the same page as what you are saying. She sends a lot of indications that she's into me...body language, the eyes, the tone of her voice, the cuddling. I know without a doubt that she does care for me a great deal. And, as a good woman friend of mine said...a woman is not going to get so involved with a guy that she knows has feelings for her...especially becoming involved with his family like she has...unless she has an interest in him too.

I also know she's going through a difficult time with finally breaking things off with the other guy she has been with, although it seems to be kind of gradual (she's only been down to see him 1 out of the last 4 weekends...and the one before that she just house sat while he took his son on a short trip). So I don't want to push her too much either...I know her well enough to know that she'll pull away if I am too direct.

I know she'd say that we are just very good friends. She doesn't act that way entirely though.

I fear I'm going to get burned big time here. And, unfortunately, I don't think I can handle a situation where she ends up seeing someone else while still taking on a role in my family (and I can't imagine any guy would like his woman doing that with another guy either). I know, I should just breath and take it as it comes.

dlc872 Post #4 March 13,2009, 11:11pm

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Oh...and along the lines of would she date me...last year I invited her to a couple of things, as a "friend". She wouldn't go...she felt she'd have to lie to her boyfriend and he'd be upset about it (although he refused to go on vacation with her, blew off her 40th birthday (too busy), Valentines, etc...like I said, he's a real gem). My daughter competes in pageants and she sponsored her last year and was planning to go to the finale....then cancelled all of a sudden because she "was afraid that her bf would get upset".

So imagine my surprise a couple weeks ago when she called and said "I have tickets to a concert this Saturday night and I'd like to take your daughter...I said, OK...and then she said...and I'd like to invite you too." It might not seem like that big of a deal, a night with a guy and his kid...definitely "friend zone" stuff, not a "date". But...given her prior history...she was sending me a huge message about how things are changing Later I mentioned that I noticed Al Stewart was playing there soon...she said..."so get some tickets!". Unfortunately I didn't get to test the waters, the show was sold out.

She has suggested once or twice getting a drink together....once she called me on a Thursday to do just that but I was tied up.

So I'm kind of feeling that the water might be OK to swim in...but I'm not sure the situation is quite ready to try for a "date"...plus there is risk regarding my kids too. I have noticed that she does once in a while do things with one guy friend or another...I was told by a woman friend that this is a good sign for me because she sees going somewhere with me as a "date" but with the other guys as just a "buddy". I don't know about that.

bravethestorm Post #5 March 13,2009, 11:35pm

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I see a lot of mixed messages here. Even if she has a lot of guy friends or isvery forward with everyone...it is odd.

The definition of friendship is very blurred here and it doesn't mean that it is more. Clearly she enjoys the time with you but she keeps the boyfriend. To me, she is behaving like someone that simply isn't happy with settling on one...wanting more always. It's kinda like someone that stays married but fools around or flirts a lot.

This relationship is playing with fire since you care for her and she seems content with what is. I hope you don't get hurt. It's one of those things that you basically have a decision to make...be content as things are (knowing they may never progress or become more friendship), testing the water with tickets/something more date like, or moving on.

gr8galmv Post #6 March 13,2009, 11:39pm

6 mo. into dating my EH guy and still feels like I've won the EH lottery!

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Ah man, I'm kind of bummed you are going through this. I have a couple of random thoughts so please let me jump all over the place.

1. I don't understand what she means that she's in the process of breaking up. It's not a marriage, it's a boyfriend. If she wants to end things with this guy, you just end them. She's actually being quite cruel to this boyfriend of hers if you ask me.

2. While she's in the process of breaking up, I assume the affection between her and her boyfriend has wained. You just might be the replacement guy for her affections and emotional state which most likely are all over the board. This isn't fair to you and as a result, you're emotions and attachement to her are at a level that puts you in a position to be hurt.

3. Does she have any children herself? It seems like she has quite a tight bond with your daughter which actually might be part of the reason why you and this woman are so connected at times. Even if she never feels like she would ever fall in love with you...maybe she fears losing the bond she has with your daughter?

4. For as unfair as I think it is that she's gotten you into this position by sending you such mixed messages, I think it is important to know the role you've play to get to this point. I know you've tried so hard to be her rock. Hoping that it would grow into something more. While she seems like a sweet gal, I don't like that your emotions are being played with. I don't think by any means she intends to do this but you need to come to a decision yourself. Personally, I think you need to put yourself back out there in the dating world. Your friend isn't healthy at the moment. And even if and when she finishes this 'breaking up process', you've be a poor candidate for a healthy relationship until there's some understand on her part as to what she wants out of a relationship.

You've been torturing yourself for three year's now. When are you going to stop the pain? When are you going to choose to stop hurting like this? Don't wait for her...she's out there living her life and you're sitting and staring out into the window of her life just making yourself feel even sadder and more hurt by the minute. I know cuddling on the bed at the moment feels so great...but how do you feel when she walks out the door and heads to her boyfriends house later. It kinda sucks doesn't it?

Good luck. Keep us posted.

javajava5 Post #7 March 13,2009, 11:49pm

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Dear DLC872,

My heart goes out to you for this is so hard. I remember back when you wrote about her though not specific details per se.

What struck me most when I read your post was that when you pull back from you, she comes close to you, and when you seek to be close to her, she pulls back. It's an odd "dance" of sorts going on between you two.

Let's see if I understand all this correctly:

1. She's involved in a relationship with someone else that she appears to be breaking off quite slowly.

2. Meanwhile, while dating this other guy, she's been hanging a lot with you and your daughter, has your daughter over to her house regularly every week, comes over and cooks dinner every now and then at your house, is taking your daughter for a week's trip with her and her mom, and allows you to give her practically full body massages.

3. She's vague on what she does on Thursdays, but a friend of your's at the bowling alley remarked to you about seeing her there with another guy on Thursday.

4. You're nuts about her and are stuck, hurting quite a bit. Meanwhile, she has her regular boyfriend (who she's breaking up with - but even before that), you, and another guy apparently for three guys that like her at least it seems.

5. She gives you mixed messages which I would suspect she's also giving the other guys. She's hot and cold, if you will, was upset that you might be waiting for her, sent you a note, and then does nice things for you such as remove snow from your car and drive.

6. She calls you at least once a day, if not more. We don't know how often she calls the other men.

7. She told you she's ending her relationship with the other guy, but you're not pushing it.

8. She seems like your girlfriend, but she's not. Maybe the guy at the bowling alley that was with her thinks that too. We don't know.

____

As you know, when one is so emotionally involved with a person, it is hard to get a clear picture of what's going on.

Perhaps one way to look at it might be like this:

(1) She's violating good relationship principles by not having broken up with her regular boyfriend and doing whatever necessary work BEFORE getting involved with you and this other man on whatever levels.

Usually, someone dating a person does not do the kind of things she's doing with you as it's inappropriate - especially, the foot and other massages and great emotional intimacy which belongs to the boyfriend one is dating.

(2) What you see her doing to her current boyfriend is something she might do with you one day and it's important for you to consider that when reflecting on her character. Don't be so blinded by love that you cannot see a person's core values.

Core values involve being loyal to one's boyfriend - and here I'm talking about until she's completely broken up with him. She was not loyal to him even while she was with him because of her degree of emotional intimacy with you, even though you were sexually platonic. People have emotional affairs which are very damaging.

(3) Even though she knows you're crazy about her, and most probably that you'd marry her in a heartbeat, she seems to sort of be doing to you what she's doing with her boyfriend with yet this third mysterious guy. You don't know what she's doing with him, how often she's calling him, if she's also shoveling his drive, or any of that do you?

(4) She seems unable to really break things off but instead, lets them linger. Breaking up with a boyfriend is not a process but needs to be a one-time event. She either wants to date him or she doesn't. Anything in-between is simply the person procrastinating in making a decision for whatever reasons.

(5) Not only is this other man's life in limbo - her boyfriend - but your's is, too, in effect, as you've stopped dating others, going to singles' parties, etc. Perhaps this third man's life is in limbo also.

(6) She doesn't seem to care how much you're hurting; otherwise, she wouldn't be sending you such mixed messages which really are leading you on and hurting you terribly, not to mention keeping your life in limbo. You deserve great respect, not being "played" like this, if you will, though I know you don't consider it that.

You're not thinking with a clear head though here.

(7) She sounds confused like she doesn't really know what she wants with a man or even who she wants. One of your considerations needs to be is if she can really commit to a man and if she could commit to just one man in marriage. Right now, she seems to be seeing three men. This is not good.

(8) You're afraid to talk with her about all this as you're afraid she'll give you the "friend" talk and be out of your life.

Keep in mind something you already know and that is only YOU can take charge of your life and get out of this limbo land which is not good for you, your daughter, and / or this lady either.

Really, when you consider it, you have nothing that much right now. All you have is a lady who calls you everyday, seems to have "adopted" your family, let's you massage her, but draws back when you want to get close, and comes close when you draw back.

It's time to talk with her privately and stop pussyfooting around it all, if you will. Tell her this is too hard on you, you're concerned because your daughter has come to love her, and you need to know if she will date you exclusively with an eye toward marriage. She can't just pick and choose anymore. Either she gets the whole package of you and your lovely daughter or none of it. Relationships are not like a buffet table sampling here and there.

Tell her you will not have contact with her for three days in which you want her to think it over most carefully, and then you want a definitive answer. You're not demanding, but you're a man who is going places. If she wants to come along, you'd like her to; if not, you're going to pursue love with someone who chooses to love you back and marry you.

It's past time for you to step up to the plate here. You're not being selfish in doing so. Basically, you've been somewhat of a doormat in letting her walk all over you. Woman do not respect man who let them do this. It's time to be a man who will no longer allow such treatment.

It's time for her to accept not only the pleasure, but the responsibility of a full-fledged relationship that is based on love, trust, commitment, responsibility, loyalty and all those core character values that are essential in any relationship. She's getting all the pleasure at others' expense. That is not what it's all about. That's being very selfish and immature, not to mention irresponsible. If she doesn't want to, then she needs to come clean with you so you don't keep hoping and can move on to find love and marriage.

She's tying up three guy's lives it seems: Her boyfriend who she's in the "process" of breaking up with (this is utter silliness making it a process - it's not), your life and that of your daughter, and guy Number 3, that you know about. Who knows if there's more?

Either she will go on with you as your exclusive girlfriend, with an eye to marriage in the next year or so or you will be released to meet someone else who is available for marriage and wants to get married. That is only fair and reasonable and she needs to stop being so selfish.

You and she have known each other for a long time now and things can't go on as they have as it's not fair to you and your family. You do not want to share her with others and if she wants others, then she can't have you.

Right now you're making it much, much, much too easy for her to have her cake and eat it too so she doesn't have to make any definitive decision about anything but wax and wane in your life to her heart's content. This could go on as long as you allow it.

When people are allowed too many choices, they tend not to appreciate and / or value any of them and that's what's happening here. For example, and this is an extremely simplistic analogy, if she has ice cream choices with chocolate, vanilla, and strawberry, she needs to pick one - not all three.

She can't just have her needs met and you not have your's met. You're there for her meeting her need for companionship, your daughter for when her "mothering" urge come to the fore, you for flirting and a bit of romance (though still platonic), you for body massages, etc. Yet she refuses, so far, to give you love leading to marriage.

How dare she should dabble with all of your feelings in such a frivalous way should be your thought! You and your daughter are not people to be toyed wjtb in meeting her needs while not having your needs met too. She's taking advantage of your love for her and the whole situation. This is not healthy on either of your parts.

Take your stand and follow through. Stop the foolishness. Do you want to go through five more years of this? Ten years? This has already been going on for a long time even though she has / had a boyfriend.

You're taught her that she can behave this way with you and you'll give her a practically endless rope. Have you ever considered that giving her an ultimatum might cause her to carefully consider what she really does want in life? Have you thought that if YOU broke off with her she might very much miss you and your daughter and decide she can't bear it, that she really does love you and wants to marry you?

She'll not decide this, it seems, in the next fews years, anyway, without some motivation. Love is full of action and is purposeful. It doesn't just drift aimlessly with no course. It moves forward. It's not stagnant.

There comes a time in life when decisions have to be made. That's what separates the children from the adults. Being responsible and accoutable is important and this lady is not responsible to any of you as an exclusive girlfriend, nor does she appear to be accountable to anyone either, simply going as she pleases without regard for who she deeply hurts. You do know that your daughter is probably going to be hurt in all of this.

That not what love is. Here's what true love is:

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails." I Corinthians 13: 4 - 8, Holy Bible, New International Version

Though it may not seem so, she is self-seeking pleasure with her boyfriend (in the past), pleasure with you, pleasure with this other man. When she does this, she avoids the responsibility involved in a one-on-one exclusive relationship with a man. She gets all the fun times with each one of you but not all the responsible stuff involved in an adult relationship and later on in a marriage.

It's easier to flit from person-to-person-to-person than it is to settle down with one and work through everything that is involved in being in an exclusive relationship.

You must consider how her boyfriend has felt about her relationship with you and how you'd feel if you became her boyfriend and she did the very same thing to you that she and you are now doing (not talking sex here) to her boyfriend when things were good between them.

Though you may not realize, her relationship with you has pulled her emotionally away from her boyfriend just as it would if she had an outside (platonic) relationship with someone if you became her boyfriend. That male friend gets a lot of the emotions that rightfully belong in the relationship to the boyfriend. That emotional intimacy belongs to the boyfriend and needs to be between the two of them - not with a third party.

I'm talking in a global sense realizing from what your wrote that she told you she's breaking up with the boyfriend.

You see, she has triangles - traingular relationships. All this time she's been involved with her boyfriend and way before talk of breaking up with him occurred on her part, she's had you in the picture so there's been the three of you.

Now, she's breaking up with the boyfriend, and she has you but now there's apparently this other guy waiting in the wings - the guy at the bowling alley.

This isn't the way of responsible, adult relationships that lead to love, marriage, and a lifetime commitment.

Only YOU can put an end to this "crazy" cycle you and she are on but you must be strong enough to walk away if that's the end result. To do so, though, is healthy, and will free you up to love and marry someone who loves you and wants to marry you back.

She knows if she wants to date you or not and even if she loves you I'd say. You and she have known each other for several years now so this is not new. If she doesn't know, then that's an answer in itself. She does seem very wishy-washy in the dating area, the relationship area - seeming even to have the hardest of times in making a clean break with her boyfriend. Apparently, she has a very hard time in making relationship decisions which is not good and leaves the other people in her life in limbo which is where you are. She strikes me as quite selfish in this way.

Perhaps she sees clearing your car and drive from snow as a sort of remorse gift for not giving you what she knows you'd like; but instead, substituting something else. Maybe that's her way of dealing with any guilt she's feeling by doing something nice in an unrelated area. Hard to tell what her motivations are here.

Nevertheless, when all is said and done, you, quite simply, have nothing now but an unrequited love. The reasons are unimportant. That is the reality of your situation. It is what it is and is liable to stay that way for years if you don't take a stand and plan a deliberate course of action that does not involve further waiting. You're only leading YOURSELF on by doing so. As painful as it may be, it's much better to know NOW than to delay, delay, delay which only brings you more angst. You could delay for years and still have nothing more than you have now. There comes a time to call it quits.

There's an article on these boards about relationship ambivalence which could be an issue with her called, "Are You Ambivalent About a Relationship?" Here's the link: http://advice.eharmony.com/article/a...ationship.html in the event this might be helpful to you.

Also, is all this little what you really want for your daughter and yourself? Is this a good example to your daughter of what a healthy, mature, stable relationship should really look like? How long are you willing to wait for this lady? She seems to be the one calling all the shots now about things with your permission. Only you can make things change as this lady seems content to let things drift aimlessly for years and years as they have been going on for a very long time.

Wishing you well as you make some very hard choices.

JavaJava5

gr8galmv Post #8 March 14,2009, 12:08am

6 mo. into dating my EH guy and still feels like I've won the EH lottery!

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JavaJava- Not to be rude but I normally skip over your posts due to length. But I read your post above and truly think you have lovely things to say and I agree with you. Taking control rather than giving someone control over your emotions like that is so important. Hopefully the original poster, who seems like a guy who would be fiercely loyal and loving to the right woman...hopefully he'll make those tough decisions so that he can meet a great gal that is waiting and wanting someone like him.

javajava5 Post #9 March 14,2009, 12:13am

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Dear Gr8GalMV,

LOL! Yes, unfortuntely they can sometimes be long and I sometimes need Adam (ThePriestess) to come behind me and summarize what I've written in a nutshell as he does so well!

Thank you for yor most kind words. My heart goes out to the original poster (OP) because it does hurt terribly and he's in such an untenable position in my opinion. Nice to meet you here!

JavaJava5

Steve_Cam Post #10 March 14,2009, 2:09am

is going to clean house

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I saw mixed signs til you mentioned that she drew a line in the sand saying that you shouldn't be waiting for her. To me she made it very clear that her feelings end at friendship.

What I see here is you are her 'Friends With Benefits', though in this case they arent sexual benefits. You are possibly filling in for the parts of her BF that he doesn't fill. She can fulfill her maternal needs, warmth needs, friendship needs with you, while not being in a relationship. The only woman I've dated like that had some severe mental issues(I am not suggesting that yours does, but there is something wrong here).

I would sit her down and lay it on the line. You'll probably get some flack that she warned you not to get attached, but let her know thatsince she is now single, this is your opportunity to see whats up and roll the dice. Let her know how much you value her friendship andof course dont want to end it, but figured it was now or never. Things may be uncomfortable for a bit after that, and she might possibly walk away, but such is life. You'll need to decide if its worth risking sitting and waiting for possibly years for her to come around and marry someone else. Yes she may come around to you some day, but I wouldn't count on those eggs hatching.

I feel for you man. On one hand you have something very special going on that alot of people never have(including alot of married people). On the other its not complete. I wish you the best of luck.

-Steve Cam

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“I was ok until the kiss on the cheek part....That doesn't sound like your defenses were up at all... It's one thing for a guy to walk up and start with the cheesy lines....But as soon as I say, "no ... ” – Ingytravel

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