Does anyone still respect Chivalry, was it ever respected?


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jaysleepy is offline jaysleepy Post #11  October 15,2008, 8:25pm
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LonelyStarState,294977 wrote :


it didn't concern you. you should have minded your own business unless the guy was beating her up, hurting her physically in other ways or if she verbalized to you for your assistance. its not your job to impose your values upon others like that. you're not morality cop andyou're certainly not her big brother either.


so chick got bumped into. whoop-dee-doo. i go to bars andbump into people all the time. it happens at crowded venues such as bars. what next? she going to call you over because someone said something to her that she didn't like or just because someone gave her a dirty look? thats between her and the person she's dealing with.


all she did was escalate something that was a whole lot of nothing which could have been dealt with by her being the bigger person and saying "oh, i'm sorry, i didn't see you there". was the guy being a big richard? sure he was, absolutely, and he should have apologized.


is chivalry dead? i hope not. but the reality of it is that somewomen in my experience (out in the general public) do not want men holding doors open for them, they do not understand words such as "thank you" and "please, take my chair". there are women who think that deeds of chivalry bestowed upon themimplies that they're physically and mentally weaker as a gender. there are women out there that mistake chivalry as something else whenwhat it basically is.... is it's politeness, in words and deeds (Edit: which includes using the minimum force necessary to accomplish your objective), aswell as usinggood manners.





Isnt the act of being chivalrous is to intervene? You gonna wait til he beats her up til you actually do something? Some men think they can get away with stuff like this because we let it slide. Oh, its just a bump no big deal. Next is a slap, then a punch, then who knows what. Where do you draw the line? I mean if you're in a crowded club and you bump into people, that maybe ok, even I still apologize when the bump is hard. But common she was comming out of the bathroom. The guy was drunk obviously. Also shows what kind of low lifes they are with their reaction to the situation. "if we bump into women, we dont apologize" kind of sorry arrogant man would say that? Its not like he beat the crap out of that guy, he just asked if he did not see the lady he bumped into.


Lets just say lets forget all the details. Let me just put it this way, you gonna side with a drunk guy who bumped on a chick and not saying sorry than a guy who just stopped him and tried to give him a chance to apologize? Aren't you a little out of line here?


Women who cant accept a chivalrous gesture are probably angry sexist ladies. Misinterpreting a simple nice gesture. Just because I keep a door open fora lady doesnt mean I'm anywhere near close to thinking shes weak. I for one dont know where thats comming from. If I hold the door for a woman, and she comes to me and goes, no thank you I can hold it myself with an attitude. Then I'll let it be. Once again, let me remind you that chivalry doesnt demand respect nor rewards. I do it because I think its right and its good and I do it so I feel better about myself at the end of the day. I do it for me.


Though that chick didnt even say thank you, I know plenty of women who woulda loved pulp for what he did and he woulda got more than just a thank you.


Also someone said something about its not right for his line of work. If you ask me, thats cowardly. Let me put that to an extreme. You see someone getting stabbed to death, you dont do anything because you're not a cop, you're just a pizza delivery guy. Its not right for your line of work. Therefore you dont do anything. This is the exact reason chivalry is dying. The only thing pulp did issay "hey man did you not see that chick you bumped into?" What was his reaction? Some pompus arrogant remark. *spit* makes me sick.
 
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LonelyStarState is offline LonelyStarState Post #12  October 16,2008, 2:15am

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if this woman was such a"lady" in distress... what the heck was she doing in a bar in the first place? i'm not saying that she shouldn't have been there. i'm saying what the heck did she expect at a bar? what do you expect from someone who is drunk? drunk people do stuff like that. thats a major reason why they're not allowed to operate motor vehicles. don't jump into a septic tank and then biotch about it smelling bad.


i would agree that part of chivalry is to intervene. but, if i yelled at some woman to "get the bleep off your cell phone and watch where you're driving!!"... you going to run me off the road to protect her 'honor'? cuz i guarantee you, in the state of Tx, i'd be more then willing to use deadly force to protect myself from others (just using this as an example and not as a personal attack on you). you willing to die in the name of chivalry just because some chick got her feelings hurt... by a drunk ??


i'm not saying that chivalry is a bad thing.... back in the medieval times. this is now. you want to get sued or get arrested for escalating something like that? when i was young, dumb and full of come... i use to be like you. not willing to swallow my pride when someone wronged me. trust me, i have pointed (deleted) at people who were acting like azz wholes when they brought a fight to me for no reason.


Lets just say lets forget all the details. Let me just put it this way, you gonna side with a drunk guy who bumped on a chick and not saying sorry than a guy who just stopped him and tried to give him a chance to apologize? Aren't you a little out of line here?


thats the DUMBEST thing i've ever read. was it a crime to bump into someone? the guy was a major azz whole - i'm not disputing that point. so what if he was a drunkazz? thats not a crime. you going to beat him up for being a jerk? be my guest- "well, your honor, the reason i got into a fist fight with this drunk man was because he bumped into a woman by accident and i was defending her virginity". when the cops arrive, i hope you have a really good story for them as well as a good attorney. you want to intervene? go ahead. are you the kind of person that would shoot some punk because he called you a name? be the bigger person and brush it off - it won't kill you. don't think that i'm some pussy either. i speak softly but i carry some big sticks.


Once again, let me remind you that chivalry doesnt demand respect nor rewards. I do it because I think its right and its good and I do it so I feel better about myself at the end of the day. I do it for me.


thats fine and dandy... wanna loan me $100 bucks then? i'll pay you back, i promise. chivalry doesn't call for stupidity either. read the art of war and military philosophy - that stuff is ugly. did you know that the 1st recorded use of germ warfare took place during the medieval times? they would take the disease infected carcases of dead animals and people and then fling them over the enemy's castle walls, hoping to spread the disease. read your history, warfare is full of atrocities.what a contradiction... 'fight for peace'. while you're at it, read up on deescalation techniques. verbal-judo is something else you may also want to check out. don't preach to me about not expecting rewards. i don't suppose you're working for free, are you?


Also someone said something about its not right for his line of work. If you ask me, thats cowardly. Let me put that to an extreme. You see someone getting stabbed to death, you dont do anything because you're not a cop, you're just a pizza delivery guy.


its not his (bouncer's)job to enforce morality just as its not a cop's job to tell you not to smoke cigarettes. watching someone getting stabbed is not the same thing as some drunk bumping into some woman. stabbing someone is a crime. bumping into someone is not. being a 'coward' has nothing to do with doing one's job. again, use your common sense. drunk or not, at a bar or not, an azz whole or not.... it was an ACCIDENT.


it seems like you have some sort of "hero complex" and you're wanting to use more force then is necessary toprove somethng- that's not a good thing. again, don't mistake youthful inexperience for chivalry - its just modern day stupidity. all these dam liberals have taken away the warrior spirit you and iwish for. hell, when i lived in wisconsin, you weren't even allowed to defend yourself ifsomeone broke into your house. you think i like taking sheet from punks??i've lived in two different states before finally moving to a state where the citizens had the balls (and the right)to fight crime. i'm just saying use your common sense. getting confrontational with a drunk guy over him bumping into someone is STUPID. and any chick that expects a man to 'intervene' on her behalf over some stupid sheet like that is a loser. use your f**** brain, not your brawn. thats what modern warfare is all about - its not about who has the biggest richard or the fanciest toys. its about who can out wit the other with what they have.


instead of saying "hey you drunk fool! wanna take it into the parking lot and 'dance' ??", how about going up to the chick and saying " ms, are you ok? are you hurt? that guy was a jerk, wasn't he? i hope you're ok ". confrontation is a last resort, not the first.


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like you, i wished we lived in a noble world where chivalry was the law of the land. i agree that women, children and the elderly should be protected from azz wholes. i agree we ought to live in a polite society. i agree that everyone ought to have manners. i agree to disagree. whatever it takes to deescalate a violatile situation before it gets out of hand. if you want to cross a raging river, why swim up river (fighting the current) when you can swim down stream (with the help of the current) and still get to the other side? you accomplish the same objective.


that chick was stupid for making something out of nothing (an accident) and then expecting some stranger to step in and do her dirty work. if that's your idea of chivalry... then no thanks, you can keep it.
 
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zana is offline zana Post #13  October 16,2008, 3:32am
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Pulpfriction, wrote :


Here's the scenario foryou all. While closing the club the other night,there are like 5 people left and afemale comes out fromthe restroom andsome guy bumps her. She says, "hey" and looks at me. I ask her if that guy bumped her and shesays,"yes", I then proceed to do my job and ask the guy if he failed to see the young lady whom he justbumped... needless to say he gets beligerant and happens to bethe cousin ofthe owners....the owners and the guy are yelling at each otherand then the owners said to me, "if we bump into women, we don't apologize".. I was told thatI started it by checking the guy.... andif I am here to start problems I could leave ( worked there for 1 year already, never a problemby me and I don't drink while working, unlike the owners... )Enough for me, I quit on them right there as I don't play favorites when I domy job... what really burns me though... is the fact that they told me that they don't apologize ifthey bump into women...Was I wrong to ask that guy what's up? Am I wrong to do that even if I am not working? What's your take on Chivalry people? Does it warrant anything anymore?


Hurry, my armor is rusting


So was it more the fact that the owners have no respect for other people and maybe have an attitude of belligerence not just when they are drunk, but at other times too.... that is what got you so upset, than anything else?


If that's the case, then I dont blame you for quitting - I wouldnt want to work for people like that either...
 
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Altair is offline Altair Post #14  October 16,2008, 5:42am
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What kind of bump was it? A slight one as what happens in crowded places and with a bit tipsy people, or a hip chuck that sent her flying over a table? Not all people are polite and excuse themselves when bumping into people. You should visit Disneyland on a busy day. If you stopped to excuse yourself every time you bumped into some one it would be an all day job!
 
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OBeth is offline OBeth Post #15  October 16,2008, 6:36am
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We love having our honor defended. These days though with events like "road rage" it's apparent that we have too many people amonst us that are unable to control their anger and lots of them are armed and dangerous and/or under the influence of drugs or alcohol. So, I certainly wouldn't hold it against a complete stranger if he didn't get involved in a minor incident such as this one.


If a person is in harms way? A life threatening or harmingaltercation then I think all of us - men and women - should try to intervene and difuse or defend - at least call the police or call on others to join with you in helping out someone in a dangerous situation.


Many years ago I was at a Club in San Francisco with a group of friends. We all heard gunshots and went outside to discover that a man had shot his wife/girlfriend in the parking lot We called the police and some of the men did restrain the shooter and got his gun away from him. The woman started pleading with us to leave him alone and tried to get up and go home with him. Go figure.
 
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salemsmom is offline salemsmom Post #16  October 16,2008, 1:44pm

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Oh, for goodness sakes! the question is about "chivalry" and "respect". I appreciate everything you did and tried to do. I am an extremist when it comes to Knights in shinning armor. I have a great deal of respect for those who come to the aid of others whether they want or need it or not. It is the right thing to do if you feel strongly about it. As a teacher I see bullies on a daily basis and know who these kids will grow up to be and how their peers will be treated by them in the future if something doesn't change. Chivalry is not dead, it is highly respected where it blossoms and those who recognize it appreciate it.
 
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BlackberryAddict is offline BlackberryAddict Post #17  October 16,2008, 2:22pm
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jayjay,295271 wrote :

The guy who bumped into the woman and then ignored her sounds like a jerk. At the same time...I dont' see it being the business of a bouncer to insert himself into such a situation. Apparently the management of this clubshared my attitude of a bouncer's job description. I can't be sure, but I expect there aren't many bars or clubs that would want their bouncers inserting themselves into such situations, so you may want to change your attitude or look for another line of work. Chivalry is great...but I don't think it's the place of bouncers to enforce it.
Ditto what jayjay said exactly, and LSS, I agree. It was not his business unless the guy caused her harm. Where I'm from it is NOT the bouncer's duty to make the problem larger; they are to CALM the situation, not become confrontational.

This thread is about two SEPARATE things: chivalry and bouncer duties. Chivalry is great, but that is NOT his job. I've been a bartender, seen guys step into situations like that as the 'hero'... sorry, but this gal didn't need a hero, she needed to be a real women and diffuse the situation. I got so sick of the drama queens in the bars with the "oh help, help" BS... our favorite was the chick who would hit on guys while her BF was in the bathroom or before he got to the bar then when she got caught it was {helpless mode}"oh honey, that big brute of a guy wouldn't leave me alone" thenthe BF wouldpromptly beat the snot out ofthe 'offender'then out the door the couple wouldgo to have sex (guess that was their foreplay).


Chivalry is wonderful, but to me that's not making my man, or any man, FIGHT for me!! I am a grown woman and can diffuse a situation myself without putting a man in the middle. For me chivalry is a man walking on the street side when we're walking down the street; opening doors for me; pulling out my chair (and sliding it back under me funny guy!!); holding my coat for me to put it on; taking the dog out for me because it's turned dark and he doesn't want me outside alone... {sigh} I could go on and on.
Chivalry isn't dead. For the women who don't like the little kindnesses (is that a word?) of real gentlemen, well, send them my way!
 
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Red Sox Girl is offline Red Sox Girl Post #18  October 16,2008, 2:57pm

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PF, first of all I totally admire you for quitting your job over the hideous actions of the owners - regardless of the incident and whether people think it deserved your action, the fact that the owners basically expect you to turn a blind eye when it suits them, is pretty gross. You stood up for your beliefs here, and that's commendable.


The lady in question did sound like a drama queen as pointed out above, but that's a different matter. It also didn't sound as if you made a big deal out of the incident - just seemingly asking the guy politely if he hadn't noticed the girl.


The general public are a beast to contend with. The general public drunk are an even more heinous beast. Good luck finding a new place of work.
 
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AlexBizzar is offline AlexBizzar Post #19  October 16,2008, 3:21pm
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It's ignorence at its best. People expect things rather than think that they should earn it.
Personally, though, I would have used that to start up a little conversation with her But yes, there is HARDLY any chivalry left in the world. Personally I try to be the best and most respectful person I can be, but of course everyone walks on me... even the ones that appreciate chivalry are too ignorant to know when someone is being nice or polite, or when they received a favor that didn't need to be given.


Probably was dumb, though, to get to the point where you quit. Jerks with the bronze are all out there doing what they always do, acting the way that ALWAYS act, but it's the smart ones who know how to survive
 
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bluskies4ever is offline bluskies4ever Post #20  October 17,2008, 12:20am
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I think there's a school of thought that women like jerks, there's something called The Mystery Method and another man wrote a book telling guys to keep women off balance by playfully disagreeing with them to hold her interest, bring her down a peg so she won't feel she's too good for the guy so to speak. But I think healthier, less neurotic women appreciate good manners and chivalry. A guy in the DMV parking lot once put my license plate on my car as I didn't know how to do it and all he asked in return was a peck on the cheek which I gladly gave. Another nice guy one time asked me if I needed help changing my flat tire. As it happened I knew how to do it, as the quick pictorial directions that came on the jack of my Japanese import were so easy a knat could figure it out. But I thought he was so kind and gracious to offer. I will always remember those two Good Samaritans with gratitude and fondness. It's the jerks that leave the bad memories. In answer to your query, women in their right mind adore and appreciate chivalrous gentlemen. Choose swain over swine everytime. It's regrettable that you lost your job over intervening for what you maybe saw as defending the honor of a fair maiden. Jerks may score points with some women, but exactly who ARE those women? If there was an actual altercation between the woman and man who bumped into each other, then that is maybe more an appropriate intervention for a bouncer. However, you did what you thought was right and no need to second guess them or you. It is what it is. Time to move on to better things and better positions. Tally Ho.
 
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